Association Forum

Inboard x Outboard

Printed from: Association Forum
Topic URL: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23615
Printed on: 07/21/2025

Topic:

Topic author: JeanAndre
Subject: Inboard x Outboard
Posted on: 06/29/2011 16:17:33
Message:

Who has an inboard C25?
What engine do you have?
Is it saildrive or driveshaft?

Can you post pictures of your inboard?

Cheers

Replies:

Reply author: Stinkpotter
Replied on: 06/29/2011 21:08:37
Message:

Why do you ask? (The reason I ask is I can't imagine this being a worthwhile conversion on a C-25. If I wanted an inboard sailboat, I'd buy one.)

Reply author: JeanAndre
Replied on: 06/30/2011 05:57:58
Message:

The reason I ask is because I am a Boat Design student at Westlawn and It would be a great exercise for me to study a conversion from outboard to inboard.

Also I plan on starting a boat restoration and customization business and my C25 is going to be my "show boat"

So I am trying to gatter as much information as I can on the different "models" of C25.

Reply author: Scooter
Replied on: 06/30/2011 06:59:56
Message:

You might try to contact Catalina an dsee if they will tell you the hull numbers that were built with in boards? Then you could maybe search through a database?

Reply author: Joe Diver
Replied on: 06/30/2011 07:59:09
Message:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JeanAndre
 The reason I ask is because I am a Boat Design student at Westlawn and It would be a great exercise for me to study a conversion from outboard to inboard.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

An interesting conversion would be to use one of those powerful electric motors, the Torqeedo. Looks like a super powerful trolling motor. It would be interesting to modify it, mounting the bottom part under the boat, in front of the rudder (think Saildrive) with a very small thru hull for the wiring. You can mount the motor controls anywhere. Put the extra batteries at the base of the companionway, under the cockpit. Additional weight would be similar to an inboard motor.

You could go further and mount up 2 of them (TwinCruise 4.0R) for 15HP.

If I was going to go to the expense and trouble of installing an inboard on my boat, I'd fully explore this possibility as well as a small diesel solution.

Reply author: dmpilc
Replied on: 06/30/2011 08:56:11
Message:

If I was going to convert a C-25 to inboard, electric would be an interesting choice. The only downside would be where to put 48 volts worth of batteries - very expensive, too. An interesting exercise, however. One of the new 44 ft. catamarans has an electric motor and prop in each pontoon, with a diesel motor mounted amidships for battery charging and house electrical needs. I understand that while sailing, the props turn and help recharge the batteries!
Call Frank Butler at Catalina Yachts and explain your plans to him. He might be willing to send you drawings of the inboard design so you can study them. Hey, he might even spring for some scholarship funds!

Reply author: Stu Jackson C34
Replied on: 06/30/2011 15:48:08
Message:

Great idea and a good subject. The major issue you may face is finding a small enough engine to fit in a C25. They may well have stopped making those engines. I don't recall which Universal Catalina put into the few diesel powered C25s. Could well be a water cooled 5411. www.marinedieseldirect.com has lots of engine information for Universal engines.

Another "challenge" is to do a design where the stuffing box is accessible. I recall the C27 design was notorious for poor access.

The engines put in Catalinas were all traditional shaft and stern tube, no saildrives.

Saildrives are a PITA and a disaster waiting to happen because of the sensitive seals and the galvanic corrosion issues with the materials used in the engines. I believe they are complete cr*p, and dangerous, but some folks (mostly those who have 'em or are stuck with 'em) love them.

You might try a search right here on "diesel" or "diesel engine" and see what pops up. I do remember some threads about them right here.

Good luck with your project.

Reply author: Stinkpotter
Replied on: 06/30/2011 19:39:11
Message:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 The engines put in Catalinas were all traditional shaft and stern tube, no saildrives...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">From Bill Holcomb, who was once a Catalina dealer: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The engines varied from year to year. Earliest options were for an Atomic 4. Then the OMC Saildrive was offered. By the mid '80s the Universal 10hp was the choise.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I looked for that because I was pretty sure I had been aware of several factory saildrives. The [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=7904"]thread that came from[/url] also talked about the difficulties associated with inboards in the C-25, such as access to the engine and stuffing box (for straight shafts). The C-25 is evidently at the very low end of the scale of sailboats that can accommodate an inboard that can be reasonably easily serviced or removed and replaced. On the other hand, I've met one (new) owner who loves his Universal in his C-25... so I'll leave it at that. I certainly understand the advantages for running in a seaway.

Reply author: Joe Diver
Replied on: 06/30/2011 20:56:34
Message:

One of the members here has one of the C25's with an inboard....can't remember offhand who it is, but maybe he'll see this thread and pop in...

Reply author: dolivaw
Replied on: 06/30/2011 21:55:30
Message:

I wish I had taken a pic of the one I saw a couple days ago... It had a hole in the transom with what looked like a short-shaft outboard hanging out.

Reply author: JeanAndre
Replied on: 07/01/2011 04:15:27
Message:

Thanks everybody for their input, it certainly gives a lot to think about.

Yanmar and Volvo both have small 2 cylinder inboards, Yanmar even has a 1 cilinder inboard.

I am pretty sure I may be able to come up with a fairly inexpensive (except for the motor itself) good solution for a conversion kit.

I might even come up with an electric "greener" option, let´s see what happens in the next couple of seasons...

Cheers

Reply author: Stinkpotter
Replied on: 07/01/2011 06:38:11
Message:

One cylinder will shake the boat and make you wish you'd sprung for more.

Reply author: dmpilc
Replied on: 07/01/2011 08:16:27
Message:

RonH,
Are you sure that wasn'r a C-27. They have a lazarette and that configuration is not uncommon.

Reply author: Ben
Replied on: 07/01/2011 19:21:12
Message:

When I was shopping for my C25 the first one I looked at was here in Central Ohio called Miss Teak, and it was a sail drive; and yep, it was an old OMC, 1997 I think on an 81 or 82 C25. While I fell in love with the boat, (who wouldn't? it was a C25), I pass on it because of the saildrive.

Reply author: dolivaw
Replied on: 07/02/2011 00:24:02
Message:

I'm not 100% certain, but it looked like a C25. Maybe someone got the idea from the C27. From where I was standing I could see what appeared to be raw, unpainted fiberglass inside the transom, so it looked like a DIY. The hole was roughly 18" square

Reply author: lightnsail@aol.com
Replied on: 07/02/2011 13:28:51
Message:

C-25 with a Universal diesel here. Access is tough though doable. I bought a boat that had sat for like 6 years and I had to sort through lots of issues. The biggest pain was removing a hot water heater and the lines to and from the engine, etc... You can get at everthing you need to as there are access hatches along the quarter berth, below the steps and sink, and from the cockpit hatch. I've replaced the hoses, raw water pump and thermostat and though not pleasant, not a huge challenge either.

Reply author: kentwm
Replied on: 07/02/2011 14:47:50
Message:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lightnsail@aol.com
 C-25 with a Universal diesel here. Access is tough though doable. I bought a boat that had sat for like 6 years and I had to sort through lots of issues. The biggest pain was removing a hot water heater and the lines to and from the engine, etc... You can get at everthing you need to as there are access hatches along the quarter berth, below the steps and sink, and from the cockpit hatch. I've replaced the hoses, raw water pump and thermostat and though not pleasant, not a huge challenge either.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Any chance you can post pictures... it would be interesting to see how much space the inboard engine takes up compared to my outboard configuration.

Reply author: Stu Jackson C34
Replied on: 07/03/2011 11:28:33
Message:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lightnsail@aol.com
 C-25 with a Universal diesel here. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What Universal engine is it?

Reply author: Kip C
Replied on: 07/03/2011 12:39:18
Message:

JeanAndre,

If you'd like, I can try to get some pictures of our inboard in the next day or 2. We have a factory installed Universal M2-12 engine, Hirth transmission with 1 ' driveshaft in our 1990. It is a 2 cylinder that developes 11hp with 25 cubic inches. The other or probably earlier model engine to ours that Catalina installed was the M-12, a 10 hp. The difference between the two is 1 whole cubic inch. I don't remember where i got this, but for some reason around 50 sticks in my head regarding the number of factory installed inboards. If there's anything else I can help with let me know.

Reply author: JeanAndre
Replied on: 07/03/2011 18:23:43
Message:

Hi Kip C,
It would be great to see pictures of your installation, it will help me a lot.
If it is hard to post here you can email me: jean@jeanandre.com.br
Thanks

Reply author: dmpilc
Replied on: 07/06/2011 12:10:24
Message:

Please post them here too so we can all see them. I'd like to see how an inboard sits in there. That's probably why the aft quarterberth has that extra long, narrow cushion. That, and access to the volcano.

Reply author: Stinkpotter
Replied on: 07/06/2011 19:56:43
Message:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 ...That's probably why the aft quarterberth has that extra long, narrow cushion.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That, or it might be almost impossible to get a full-width cushion into the berth with the companionway steps in place.

Reply author: JAB
Replied on: 07/07/2011 19:15:32
Message:

Like Kip C above, my C-25 from 1986 has a factory-installed Universal. It's the M-12. Sorry no pix.
As far as accessibility, there's a plywood panel the length of the starboard quarterberth with two slide-out access ports, each about 1 x 2 ft, for viewing the dipstick and the stuffing box.

The port side is accessed by removing panels from inside the dumpster. Rarely done since you can reach just about everything from starboard side.

At the forward end, another plywood panel with hinged door (like under the sink in the head) sits flush with the front of the cockpit. Through-hull for raw-water intake is under companionway steps, just forward of the panel.

We like the diesel...it just goes and goes for hours when needed and sips fuel. Always there for quick starts at a moment's notice. Yeah, for maintenance/service you've got to unscrew a couple of panels for complete access, but it's no biggie.

Reply author: lightnsail@aol.com
Replied on: 07/08/2011 16:35:03
Message:

Hey, if you asked a few weeks ago I would have been happy to shoot pics as all access points, cushions, etc. were removed. Now that there are "0" engine issues I'm just happy to go sailing!

Reply author: Tomas Kruska
Replied on: 07/11/2011 12:00:38
Message:

PO added Volvo Diesel 10hp with saildrive.
Also you can view the sugar scoop stern extension. The boat was then painted.

Reply author: JeanAndre
Replied on: 07/11/2011 12:42:17
Message:

Tomas,
Thank you.
I really like your boat and these pictures will help me a lot!!!
Happy sailing!

Reply author: KeziCat
Replied on: 07/11/2011 14:08:43
Message:

Wow! what a nice job on the mods to Tomas' C-25. All well beyond my ambiton level but never let anyone say I can't be done.

Reply author: Lee Panza
Replied on: 07/11/2011 19:53:53
Message:

Tomas;

That sure is an interesting modification to the stern area. It doesn't look as though much of that extension is below the waterline, to add buoyancy to offset the mass of the motor, although shifting both the fuel tank and motor forward may have obviated the need. However, I'll bet that extended tail helps reduce fore-and-aft pitching in a short chop. I don't imagine you've had the chance to sail alongside another C-25 in choppy conditions to see if there's a difference? Ironically, the one problem the rest of us have that that extension might help with has been entirely eliminated by the saildrive. I'd be curious why, after investing so much expense/effort, especially after having done it with obvious care, the PO sold it. Oh, well; you're the lucky beneficiary of his/her decision. You've got quite a conversation-piece there. If there's ever a European gathering of Jaguar 25 owners (I would expect that at least a few Jaguars made it across the channel to owners around the Continent), they'll really enjoy checking out your modified C-25.

Reply author: Stinkpotter
Replied on: 07/11/2011 20:18:56
Message:

When heeling, that overhang could add over a foot to the waterline length, increasing the hull-speed just as the classic Herreshoff and S&S designs do. Naturally, that makes the boat class-illegal and invalidates the PHRF rating for a C-25, but who cares?

I, too, wonder about investing that much effort and/or money to modify a C-25 hull instead of buying... let's say, a C-28. The risk is when you want to sell it, it's still just a C-25. (Although in Europe, who knows?? )

Reply author: JeanAndre
Replied on: 07/11/2011 21:35:05
Message:

IMHO the modifications you do to a boat are just like installing a better stereo or a nice set of rims to a car, although they don´t add value to it they sure make it nicer to the eye of the beholder.

Many may think it´s crazy to invest money in a 64 camaro or mustang... Well to each their fetishes, right?

Lee, does your boat also have a sugar scoop? Or an inboard??

Cheers

Reply author: Tomas Kruska
Replied on: 07/12/2011 00:53:47
Message:

Yes, PO made a huge investments into this boat, but you have to take in mind, that this boat was moved from US to Europe in 1995 and the boat market that days was very very poor here.
Not to mention the communists era till 1990, when the only possibility to get a boat was to build it by yourself !!
So everyone wanted to tune up their boats as much as possible.
It was not easy to buy something affordable bigger than 25" that time.

Also I think that this suggar scoop extensions was very fancy that days in one specific area. I can still see many boats here with it.

Today its different I think, I can see many new boats here, especially from Poland. Also we don't have big water areas so the majority of the boats here are trailerable 20 - 25".

Regarding the floating performance, I cannot judge because I don't know any other Jaguar 25 or C25 here.
From the pictures of the other C25s I think that my stern sits lower in the water then the original C25. I think that inboard diesel plus the stern extension is pretty heavy.

I don't race it, its mainly cruiser and all these extensions makes it even better. My wife loves to sit there with the legs in the water

I still think that C25 is a really good boat, I wish its still production, C250 is a strange design for me, I miss that sidewalks around the cockpit.

PS: PO sold it, because he wanted bigger boat, he bought something around 30" from UK (I don't remember).

Reply author: bradminda
Replied on: 07/13/2011 09:24:03
Message:

I have an inboard saildrive. It is a volvo penta MB25/50. It is old and getting hard to find impellers but works great. Sorry no pictures. any questions you may contact me if you wish.

Reply author: Lee Panza
Replied on: 07/13/2011 17:40:49
Message:

Getting back to the topic of this thread, I got curious and Google'd "Jaguar 25" and looked around a little. What I found, JeanAndre, is that a large number of Jags are inboard models. There's a lot of info about how well they work, as well as technical info about the motors and the installations. There's even a forum discussion about converting from outboard to inboard, and there are lots of contacts you could check with about this. I think you'll find it very interesting. Good luck with your project.

Reply author: JeanAndre
Replied on: 08/08/2011 08:07:59
Message:

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the Jaguar 25 google tip. Lots of good stuff there.

Cheers

Jean

Reply author: dmpilc
Replied on: 08/08/2011 10:43:08
Message:

The pics in this Jaguar 25 ad are very interesting. Good shots of the twin keel set-up and an interesting cabin arrangement - L shaped dinette but the table comes out from the bulkhead and the bottom of the "L" is next to the galley:
http://search.boatshop24.co.uk/morepictures.asp?btsrefno=24922690

And a good shot of the inboard motor.

Reply author: Tomas Kruska
Replied on: 08/08/2011 11:16:19
Message:

Here is the Jaguar 25 community site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JaguarYacht/

Reply author: treeder65
Replied on: 08/10/2011 18:51:01
Message:

I have a 1986 with an 11hp Universal. I'm on vacation right now. I really wish I had it down here in Bald Head Island. Nothing but wind this week.

I'll get some pix as soon as I get home next week. I still have mine apart and it will be easy to get pix.

Reply author: captck
Replied on: 08/12/2011 10:06:36
Message:

[quote]Originally posted by JeanAndre
 Who has an inboard C25?
What engine do you have?
Is it saildrive or driveshaft?

Can you post pictures of your inboard?

Cheers

I have diagram of inboard for C25 don't know how to attach pix here.

Reply author: JeanAndre
Replied on: 08/12/2011 10:32:53
Message:

Hi Captck,

can you please send your diagram to my email: jean (at) jeanandre.com.br

Thank you

Jean

Association Forum : http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/

Close Window