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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Crack in Rudder paralell to water line

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gbeardjr
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/08/2007 : 13:38:08

While the boat is on the hard I have found a crack in my rudder. It is just below the bottom hinge. When applying lateral pressure to the rudder the crack would open slightly. Do you think a simple fiberglass repair be strong enough to repair? My plan would be to bevel the edges of the crack and overlay with a few layers of cloth. I have never worked with fiberglass but can get the kit at west marine for 20 bucks

There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2007 : 16:49:03

Make it stronger than pretty.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2007 : 17:44:10

I second that. Make sure it holds. Then you can start saving for a balanced rudder. Cheers.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2007 : 17:48:41

I think it might hold until the replacement rudder comes from CD. Don't think I'd hope for more than that, but the sailing season up north east is short, relatively speaking, and one wants to make the most of the few months allowed us. I'd not put too much hope in the repair that you outlined might be a permanent one. I wish for your sake that it would be, B U T ??? On the other hand My rudder from an '83 Cat 25 had a vertical split the length of the leading edge. I followed the suggestion that I just shared with you and the rudder is still going now into it's second season. Hey it worked for me.. maybe it'll do the same for you. I hope so.

Best of luck GB

Val on CALISTA # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2007 : 17:54:11

GB,

I see that you are capable at posting pictures, a few closeups of the damaged rudder would be helpful in offering suggestions more meaningfull to your quest.

Val on CALISTA, #3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2007 : 19:58:12

I ignored the hairline cracks around my rudder...on a hairy day, it snapped off at the waterline.

I'd recommend either repair NOW according to the experts on this site (utilize the search option)or order a balanced rudder.

Whatever option you choose, make sure you have a dependable iron genny.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2007 : 19:58:43

Garnett: That is precisely where the C-25 rudder breaks off, due to the lateral forces when the boat is heeled an pitching through waves--either there or in line with the "pintle", or hinge bolts. (The pintle is the part of the hinge attached to the rudder, and the gudgeon is the part on the transom.) Yes, you could repair it so that it lasts a little longer (?), but it will fail at the worst possible time--at heel in a blow, putting the boat out of control. Your rudder is structurally compromised--core and all. The split vertical seam is much less threatening.

This is as good an excuse as there ever was for getting a new, balanced rudder and enjoying the feeling of power steering, as well as the security of a rudder that'll get you home. From all I've seen and heard, I like the fiberglass-shelled, foam cored rudder that Catalina put on the later boats and Catalina Direct used to sell (and I bought). I'm not so hot on CD's solid plastic rudder from IDA--there have been reports here of them breaking.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/08/2007 20:08:08

gbeardjr
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2007 : 09:59:35

Thank you all for the information. I'll try the repair but will start to mentally prepare myself to drop 400 for a new rudder

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gbeardjr
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2007 : 19:38:46

First layer of fiber glass set. I ground all the way down to the core. The core itself did not appear to be cracked. Attached are three photos of the first layer of glass setting up.

[URL=http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0229ax1.jpg]

[/URL] [URL=http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0228rg7.jpg]

[/URL] [URL=http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0227nc6.jpg]

[/URL]

Edited by - gbeardjr on 05/09/2007 19:40:40

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2007 : 20:58:07

Garnett: I'm not sure what you're doing with your pictures... All you need to do is right-click your picture in Imageshack, copy the address (starting with http and ending with jpg), and then back in the forum, click

on the toolbar, and paste the image address between the {img} and {/img} tags. No URL tags or other gobbledigook are needed. To get the pictures on separate lines, press Enter after {/img}. (The braces are square brackets in the real tags.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/09/2007 21:03:06

KenDavis
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 10:29:06

$400 to replace? Ouch!

some pevious owner to my boat made a balanced rudder
from the very nice diagram with measurements from CD.
using 1 inch(maybe 1 1/4) plywood, beveled edges, and fiberglass over the whole thing. it is starting to delaminate around the lower pintle, so I am going to sand it and add another layer of cloth, and more reinforcement at the pintles.

it works.

BTW the gudgeon upgrade from CD is worth it. I did it this last weekend, took out some of the slop feeling at the tiller, and with fresh 4200 and 5/16 bolts, doesn't leak water into the bilge while sailing. nice!

a peeve: phillips screws, in the gudgeon for example. difficult to remove once a sealant like 4200 has been used. Mine went back together with hex heads.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 15:51:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KenDavis
 ...it is starting to delaminate around the lower pintle, so I am going to sand it and add another layer of cloth, and more reinforcement at the pintles...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ken, I hate to keep preaching on this, but that location at the lower pintle is where the rudder wants to bend/break in half. If you've had moisture in the plywood core there, the strength is compromized at the most critical point. $400 might make you say "Ouch," but so will suddenly having nothing but a tiller and the top 1/3 of your rudder on a downwind run on the Gulf. What follows is very possibly a sudden broach.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 18:21:36

If I have to take a picture of the thing I will, but Buy a New Rudder or build a new rudder

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KenDavis
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 08:45:06

"...If you've had moisture in the plywood core there, the strength is compromized at the most critical point. $400 might make you say "Ouch," but so will suddenly having nothing but a tiller and the top 1/3 of your rudder on a downwind run on the Gulf. What follows is very possibly a sudden broach."

Good point.
So far no water intrusion. But I take the rudder off the stern and keep it in the cabin when not in use. For that very reason.

Edited by - on

gbeardjr
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 20:55:37

I bit the bullet and purchased a new rudder from catalina direct today. The old one is fully repaired and I will keep in the quarter berth as a backup. The fear of being 10 miles out off galveston in the gulf, and or loosing the rudder coming in through the shipping lanes scared me into it.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 21:39:14

Having a spare is definitely a wise idea. I'd also consider a spare tiller - it usually fits nice in the quarterberth up against the sail locker and stays out of the way.

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