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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

lowering the mast

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2011 : 12:04:10

I really like the way the walkway is opened up with that configuration (and, of course, the really cool A-frame)

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2011 : 16:35:58

I suppose it does look a little like a moon but I think Guppy 21 would be a better name. It is cool to see what other markets value.

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WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2011 : 18:55:31

Hey Frank, I was viewing your gallery and noticed the staple job on top. What happened?
Wes

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 07:50:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blanik
 here's how i plan to do this, maybe i have something wrong, correct me if i do:

4) bring the furler to the mast and tie it there so it's not in the way?? it'll be longer than the mast, what could i do with it so i don't damage it?

6) should i also loose the other shroud turnbuckles? (if so, how loose?)

7) putting a friend on the front deck with a gaff pole to guide and ease the mast down

9) once the mast rests on the pulpit, applying weight on it's lower end to ease upward pressure (would it be necessary to send the helper at the other end to remove some of the weight with the gaff?)

10) removing the step bolt and pulling the mast towards the back or slowly letting the front lower so helper can catch it on the ground? (seems safer to pull it on deck then lowering it with two lines side by side)

it just dawned on me that the step and mast bolt could be submitted to a shearing force, should i remove the bolt first? :-/ i was "counting" on that bolt the keep the mast aligned during lowering...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Blanik!

Looks like you have the bases covered. Here are my inputs on your questions:

4) The furler is obviously longer than the mast, so lead it aft, outside the upper shrouds and lifelines, and simply lay it on the deck aft of the mast where it will not snag on anything as the mast lowers. In general, things snagging on fittings, etc. is always the biggest concern no matter if you lower forward or aft. If you have someone available to watch the process overall and simply watch for real or potential snags, that really helps.

6) I do not loosen the upper shroud or forward shroud turnbuckles. I remove the others as you describe. Put a piece of tape above and below the turnbuckle bodies that you remove, so that when you re-install them after the mast is re-stepped, you can re-tighten them to about the same place as they were before removing them

7) I use someone on the foredeck also if I have a 3rd person. The end of a gaff is pretty small, so while they can help, by the time they are most helpful they can simply reach up to steady the mast. I stand beside the mast/boom and stay near the gooseneck as the mast comes down to steady it. The mainsheet easily manages the weight of the mast. Do not slip on the forward hatch as you go forward!!!

9) I have never had any problems with the bow pulpit carrying the weight of the mast when its on a 2x4 lashed to the pulpit.

10) Once the mast is laying on the 2x4 cradle on the bow pulpit, take the furler and lift it up alongside the mast and lash it to the mast so it scoots aft with the mast. Then simply sit on the mast, and then remove the hinge boly from the tabernacle/mast. Do NOT remove that hinge bolt before this point as you need the hinge point it provides no matter if you ae going forward or aft!! Your forward person (who I am assuming is on the foredeck) helps you to scoot the mast aft, watching out for your steaming light hitting the 2x4. Hand the base of the mast to your mainsheet person, and you stay in the middle helping to continue to scoot the mast aft.

I was confused about your question on lowering the mast with two lines to the ground? Do you need to remove it off the deck of the boat? I usually do not.... I simply scoot it forward to work on the base, or scoot it aft to work on the masthead. Put padding on the stern pulpit, and maybe a lifejack or cushion under it on top of the companionway sliding hatch. Put light lashings around the mast to the bow pulpit, and also to the stern pulpit.

If you DO need to remove it from the boat for your maintenance, remember to remove the remaining shrouds, and last everything to the mast first... two people can easily lower it over the side using ropes. Lower it down to two sawhorses.

If you are having a windy day, I would delay till the winds are down, no matter which direction you lower.....

Have fun!!! Go Slow (but once the mast starts to lower, and you may have to actually push it forward a bit to start it keep things moving!!), Talk to each other as you progress and watch for snags!

Chuck

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 09:48:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by WesAllen
 Hey Frank, I was viewing your gallery and noticed the staple job on top. What happened?
Wes
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you have a solid forward hatch then you have the white dogs that thread up a long bolt. When I owned my '82 I was reaching for something in the forepeak and drug the top of my head along the bottom of the of the bolt. I bled like a dying man.

Edited by - pastmember on 11/01/2011 09:52:39

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 09:59:14

<>

And I have liquid line whipping to paint the bottom of the bolts, purchased after seeing that picture.

Edited by - redeye on 11/01/2011 09:59:43

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 18:25:15

Wow! I will do something to mine this winter (top of list now). Sorry, I'm not trying to steal thread.

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blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 20:17:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cshaw

Looks like you have the bases covered. Here are my inputs on your questions:

4) The furler is obviously longer than the mast, so lead it aft, outside the upper shrouds and lifelines, and simply lay it on the deck aft of the mast where it will not snag on anything as the mast lowers. In general, things snagging on fittings, etc. is always the biggest concern no matter if you lower forward or aft. If you have someone available to watch the process overall and simply watch for real or potential snags, that really helps.

6) I do not loosen the upper shroud or forward shroud turnbuckles. I remove the others as you describe. Put a piece of tape above and below the turnbuckle bodies that you remove, so that when you re-install them after the mast is re-stepped, you can re-tighten them to about the same place as they were before removing them

7) I use someone on the foredeck also if I have a 3rd person. The end of a gaff is pretty small, so while they can help, by the time they are most helpful they can simply reach up to steady the mast. I stand beside the mast/boom and stay near the gooseneck as the mast comes down to steady it. The mainsheet easily manages the weight of the mast. Do not slip on the forward hatch as you go forward!!!

9) I have never had any problems with the bow pulpit carrying the weight of the mast when its on a 2x4 lashed to the pulpit.

10) Once the mast is laying on the 2x4 cradle on the bow pulpit, take the furler and lift it up alongside the mast and lash it to the mast so it scoots aft with the mast. Then simply sit on the mast, and then remove the hinge boly from the tabernacle/mast. Do NOT remove that hinge bolt before this point as you need the hinge point it provides no matter if you ae going forward or aft!! Your forward person (who I am assuming is on the foredeck) helps you to scoot the mast aft, watching out for your steaming light hitting the 2x4. Hand the base of the mast to your mainsheet person, and you stay in the middle helping to continue to scoot the mast aft.

I was confused about your question on lowering the mast with two lines to the ground? Do you need to remove it off the deck of the boat? I usually do not.... I simply scoot it forward to work on the base, or scoot it aft to work on the masthead. Put padding on the stern pulpit, and maybe a lifejack or cushion under it on top of the companionway sliding hatch. Put light lashings around the mast to the bow pulpit, and also to the stern pulpit.

If you DO need to remove it from the boat for your maintenance, remember to remove the remaining shrouds, and last everything to the mast first... two people can easily lower it over the side using ropes. Lower it down to two sawhorses.

If you are having a windy day, I would delay till the winds are down, no matter which direction you lower.....

Have fun!!! Go Slow (but once the mast starts to lower, and you may have to actually push it forward a bit to start it keep things moving!!), Talk to each other as you progress and watch for snags!

Chuck
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

hi chuck, thanks for the reply, i just read it, quite useful tips, i wonder about not loosening the high shrouds, the pivot point of the shrouds being lower than the one for the mast don't they kind of have a locking moment until the mast is inclined a bit?

i have to take the mast out of the boat for a repair, it will most probably be carried by truck to the shop so i'll leave the mast at my spot for the winter :-/ (anyway i have work to do on it in the spring, new lights and electrical wire and i'll use this opportunity to change the steel wire halyards to all rope and the sheaves...)

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2011 : 21:00:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blanik
hi chuck, thanks for the reply, i just read it, quite useful tips, i wonder about not loosening the high shrouds, the pivot point of the shrouds being lower than the one for the mast don't they kind of have a locking moment until the mast is inclined a bit?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would not loosen the upper shrouds. They get loose quick, and you want them to be snug as possible to help steady the mast.

All of this sounds quite complicated and scarey, but I think you will find that having thought it out and being prepared makes it pretty straight forward. The key is slow and steady, with no sudden or jerky moves with the mainsheet, and watch for things getting snagged or tangled.

One last suggestion. You might want to put a lashing on the gooseneck if yours slides, to prevent it from sliding up or down.

Have fun!!

Chuck

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2011 : 13:07:56

thanks! yes my gooseneck can slide up or down but the PO tied a line from the goosneck to a cleat located about 12" under it so it can't move up (when i haul the mainsail the boom will lift maybe an inch due to that piece of rope's stretch but not more)

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2011 : 18:31:15

Your will have bent "T" toggles on your turnbuckles at some point if you don't loosen the attached shrouds. I do 5 turns on the uppers and aft lowers to lower astern. It gets you over the hump, and they are sloppy whether you loosen them or not by the time you get to 10º.

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2011 : 17:58:34

oooooookkkk, mast down!!! what a day, i'm pretty sure it's the first time the mast was taken down since the boat was built, we where 3 and a 4th would have been better, i went the forward way, everything went according to plan except when we actually lowered it, i thought the mainsheet line was long enough to go all the way but it turned out i ran out of line at about 10%-15% before resting on the bow pulpit, i then realized there was an old knot i couldn't undo at the end of the mainsheet so i couldn't release it ... here's a shot of me pulling on the mainsheet to remove pressure with one hand while trying to remove the block from the traveler with my other hand and, you can't see this on he picture but the wind was picking up and the whole thing was waving left to right... those where 5 long minutes before i could remove the screw that was holding the block on the traveler (i ended up breaking the shackle holding the block to the traveler, but meh)

once the block freed it went down just fine, the only thing that we might have broke is the kink in the furler, it's a multiple sections furler and there seems to be an aluminium lining inside the furler that looks sheared :-/
that and the windvane that exploded the minute we put the mast on the ground but it went gently it was more a case of the windvane being under the sun for almost 30 years and totally dried out...

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2011 : 18:15:12

here's a video made with the camera being set on auto-picture ;-)

http://www.frigidworld.com/rich/irene/unstep.m4v

Edited by - blanik on 11/04/2011 18:15:54

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:17:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blanik
 oooooookkkk, mast down!!! what a day, i'm pretty sure it's the first time the mast was taken down since the boat was built

the only thing that we might have broke is the kink in the furler, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Congrats on getting the mast unstepped! I am surprised you did not have enough mainsheet? Did you unreeve it to only have a 2:1 purchase beforehand? (was it only 3:1 or was in 4:1 when fully rigged?

How did the furler foil get a kink? Laying it aft of the mast should have allow it to lay out flat as the mast laid down?

You guys looked COLD!!!!!

Good Job!

Chuck

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2011 : 19:36:03

it was cold and miserable... right until we finished, after that it was all sun ans warm... so murphyesque, i think the mainsheet is 3:1 but the roll of line is so big when i roll it, it never occurred to me that i might run out of line... i should have untie the knot at the end of the line at least before lowering, that way i would have turned it into a 2:1 but we wouldn't have jammed there... well, i guess i learned something

the roller worries me a bit, it kinked a bit when we lowered, the 3rd man was pulling it rearward to make it curve nicely but when the mast jammed midway he took a gaff to release some of the weight at the top of the mast, which was more important at that point

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2011 : 16:38:00

Richard, thanks very much for posting the picture and video.

Interesting you can use the boom as a gin pole - especially with a hinged gooseneck. Also interesting the boom/gin pole gives you enough leverage so you can lower the mast all the way down to the bow pulpit.

Is your mast a standard or tall?

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2011 : 19:40:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Richard, thanks very much for posting the picture and video.

Interesting you can use the boom as a gin pole - especially with a hinged gooseneck. Also interesting the boom/gin pole gives you enough leverage so you can lower the mast all the way down to the bow pulpit.

Is your mast a standard or tall?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

hi, it's a standard rig, the boom is so long that the leverage is even stronger than an a-frame (i could hold it with one hand) but the goosneck makes it unstable, i should have tied a line on each side of the boom to the chainplates, just to make it more stable

Edited by - on

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