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VictorS
1st Mate

Member Avatar

Mexico
32 Posts
Initially Posted - 06/21/2017 :  17:16:11  Show Profile
Hi there,

As you can see (if I properly set it up) on my signature the new owner of a 1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L. CTYK0453M78C.

As a profile:
Sailing experience: Beginner. Over the years I have sailed a bit but still a beginner; have sailed on my own a J24 (not mine), Santana 20 (not mine), Flying Dutchman (not mine), and a Catalina 22 SK that used to be mine for about 8 months after we decided to upgrade to a C25. All of this in a small, but sailboats crowded inner lake in Central Mexico (Valle de Bravo).

SailboatMaintenance/Engineering/Mechanical/Electrical/Plumbing/Painting/Coating, etc experience: None, but eager to learn, and of course conscious I will pay for expert support.

Top Challenges:
(i) I am not an english native speaker so sometimes it is hard to follow on the forums topics and of course on the sailboats/sailing language;

(ii) The already mentioned lack of experience in a lot of fields;

(iii) no chance to find parts/tools/accesories/ in Mexico; but with some chance to go to TX to get them (mailed there);

(iv) Low chance to get experienced support here in my area, so will need to rely a lot on what I can learn/be instructed here in the forums.

For now top priorities to work on are:

(i) Turn into an Association Member;
(ii) Keel nuts/bolts are not in good shape;
(iii) There is a hole in the bow; I´ve been told it hit the dock in a storm.
(iv) Upgrade the "to hull" to bronze since currently the factory one is still installed.
(v) Check if the rigging is OK, and look forward into having it completely replaced. She is in the trailer at my yard, about 100 miles from the lake).
(vi) Some repairs on the sails, and looking forward to get a couple new of them.
(vii) Bottom and top paint.
(viii) Minor interior repairs.
(ix) Set the old 6hp Jhonson I already had.

I think to ask for advice on I will follow/reply on topics already related to each one.

Well, I think that is all for now, the wife is calling and of course she is the captain while in the house, hope I can make it to be the captain at the lake or when coastal sailing (should I listed this as the top challenge?).

Thanks.
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 06/21/2017 :  18:04:06  Show Profile
Welcome Victor. I think your English is better than mine and it's my only language! We try to help with all questions so fire away anytime you have one. Good luck with your new to you boat.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 06/21/2017 :  18:48:02  Show Profile
Victor, Bienvenidos al Forum de Catalina veinte cinco! The Catalina 25s Forum.

It seems that you have some challenging projects with your new boat.

Order of importance of the repairs (in my opinion) are:
1. Replace the rigging - the mast could fail and fall down
2. Replace the "to hull" fittings - the boat could sink
3. Fix the keel bolts - you don't want to lose the keel because the boat could capsize
4. Fix the hole in the bow - keep the water out of the boat
5. Make sure your engine runs every time you need it

I watched a good YouTube channel for making fiberglass repairs: Boatworks Today. See https://youtu.be/2nx7HEWGZaA
There is a series of many clear videos showing a large number of different techniques.

Buena suerte y tenga in buen rato - good luck! the most important job is to enjoy yourself!
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 06/21/2017 :  19:39:48  Show Profile
Welcome Victor! An early item on your list should be to check out Catalina Direct in California. They are not part of Catalina Yachts, but specialize in parts and upgrades for various Catalina models including the C-25. They really know these boats. I don't know how shipping to you will work, but you can find out.

For the bow repair, West Systems (maker of various fiberglass repair products) has manuals on how to do this kind of thing.

There are no "dumb questions" here--we all started in about the same place at some time. And don't be afraid to ask for definitions of the terms we might use. It sounds like you've been doing some homework already.

Best of luck! (Lo siento, no hablo español.)
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/21/2017 19:43:41
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dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts
Response Posted - 06/22/2017 :  07:02:14  Show Profile  Visit dasreboot's Homepage
dont forget to add your boat to the boat search database
Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 06/22/2017 :  09:34:12  Show Profile
I'll also suggest you check out how to post pictures here. Often a picture greatly helps us understand what the problem is to give you some better suggestions. There's a lengthy discussion on photos in the Testing forum... It needs some repairs and updating, so I'll try to give you a short version here:

1. Upload your picture to any photo site, including our Photo Gallery. (I've heard of one or two sites that don't work well for this--I've used Shutterfly for years.)

2. "Copy" the URL (address) of the picture. (In Google Chrome under Windows, I right-click the picture and select "Copy image address".

3. Where you want the image in your post, click , which places [ img ] and [ /img ] in your post.

4 "Paste" the address between the ] and the [. You're done. You can use the Preview function to see how it will look.

It's a good idea to press "Enter" before and after each picture so they don't spread out horizontally, making the posts in a topic hard to read.

We look forward to seeing that hole in the bow. The C-25 is pretty strong there--it would take a major hit to make a very big hole. (It might only need a Marine Tex patch--sort of like body putty on a car--and then some gelcoat patch on top.)
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/22/2017 09:45:12
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VictorS
1st Mate

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Mexico
32 Posts
Response Posted - 06/22/2017 :  17:27:57  Show Profile
Updates:

(i) Now I´ve turned into an Association Member; been reading a lot around here for several months but I have to say it feels good to actually turn into a member, so much friendship, support and info not to turn into a member with a paid subscription, thanks.

(ii) Scott. Thankyou for your welcome, sure I will ask a lot, you already read about my challenges.

(iii) Bruce, thankyou for your advice on priorities; based on my current position the keel bolts is the one that worries me the most in terms of get it properly done, of course is not that I think the other topics are not top priority. Thankyou for that interesting link, and by the way I am about to attend my very first clas on fiber, gelcoat, etc, which will prepare me better to face those repairs, but I will look for professional advice, and even to have an expert doing the job as needed. I also agree with you it is a matter of enjoying it, it is my belief that as soon as you can spend your time on whatever you like even preparations to do it are enjoyable (hope this last word really exists).

(iv) Dave, yes, I´ve been seeing also items on Catalina Direct, I think it is great to have such a specialized source of support/parts/items, etc. Easiest for me will be to have items shipped to a PO in south TX, but I will also take a look on having them shipped directly, it will be a matter of timing/duties, etc. For sure I will take a look on West Systems; and will prepare myself the best I can before posting questions, some might sound too novice but will threw them as needed. That guide on posting photos will help a lot; as mentioned before I think I will respond on related topics for each of my challenges, I really think it will help the community to have the topics properly arranged. Thanks for your time.

(v) Todd, already added she on the search database, thankyou. Wonder if someone sometime might get to visit Central Mexico, and of course will be glad to support; the country has not being in its best shape for several years though (did I use the word "though" properly this very first attempt?)

Soon I will post on related topics as needed; thanks everyone for the warmth welcome.
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 06/23/2017 :  07:59:41  Show Profile
In your to do list I would change those thru hulls first if they are the volcano type. Those are just scary.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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VictorS
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Mexico
32 Posts
Response Posted - 12/16/2017 :  17:06:39  Show Profile
Hey all,

After the rainy season today we have restarted the projects.

On the through hull topic:

(i) Of course lots of reading here in the forums and from other resources; so decided to go with:

a. GROCO FBV-750 Seacok + GROCO TH Through Hull + GROCO pipe to hose adapter;

b. 1/2" G10 glass epoxy as backing plate (amazed I was able to find it in Mexico City); following Wayne Cannings advice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moxnIBRFbgc&t=514s

c. 5200 (aware it is permanent; not installed yet).

(ii) went with Todd Buschs suggestion (http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/Dora-Thruhull-upgrade.asp) with a hole saw:



I have not wetted the drilled hole with unthickened epoxy to seal that surface as also suggested by Todd.

The through hull sits very well both in and out as you can see below:



And below you can see the dry fit test:



You may notice:

a. Of course the through hull nut is installed just for the picture;

b. Checked GROCOs recommendation related to the threads available for installation considering the hull thicknes + the backing plate; My calculation is I am 1/16" out of spec but do not think this may be an issue.

A bit difficult to notice on the following picture but of course the seacock ended perpendicular to the hull vs vertical (as also pointed by Todd). My question here is how critical it is to install the through hull vertical?, I cant figure out why being perpendicular to the hull may be incorrect.



By grinding the volcano we made it OK to have the backing plate properly sitting on the hull:



So, to have this concluded may I please ask for:

(i) your comments about vertical vs perpendicular?

(ii) What are the bolts/nut specs to have the seacock and the backing plate attached? (amazed I did not find it in GROCOs info); I am mostly wondering about the material since I will take care of dimensions as needed,

Regards,

Victor
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C
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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

814 Posts
Response Posted - 12/16/2017 :  22:28:03  Show Profile
¡Hola y bienvenido a aqui! Hablo español muy mal porque estudio español solamente en el universidad cinco años pasado y no tengo practicar mucho nunca, pero quiero tener mas practicar. Hablo español menos del niño que tienen tres años. ¡Espero que te gusta su velero nuevo! ¡Salud!


Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/
Edited by - sethp001 on 12/16/2017 22:32:54
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odonnellryanc
Navigator

Members Avatar

108 Posts
Response Posted - 12/17/2017 :  16:54:04  Show Profile
Hey! Welcome to the forum!

> (ii) The already mentioned lack of experience in a lot of fields;

The book is written in English (not sure if you can find a Spanish translation) but if you can read as well as you write then I am sure you will be fine! https://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Complete-Illustrated-Sailboat-Maintenance/dp/0071462848

Absolutely worth the money several times over ... and worth a cover-to-cover read. There are several things that will save you big bucks if you learn them there first.

> (iii) no chance to find parts/tools/accesories/ in Mexico; but with some chance to go to TX to get them (mailed there);

You can usually get by without going insane on the tools. Seems your boat mostly needs fiberglass work done and rigging. You can do standing rigging yourself for slightly more money (without much risk from what I know) and most other things can be done with few tools.

For fiberglass, the one tool that was SUPER useful was the orbital sander. Looks like this: https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/3c438670-45f1-49ae-bd2a-8dca82fa0d15/svn/makita-disc-orbital-sanders-bo5041-64_1000.jpg

Buy a good one... well worth the $100 USD I spent on mine.

> (ii) Keel nuts/bolts are not in good shape;

This is an easy enough job. You will see people mention that you should use a torque wrench. Maybe others can comment on if this is required if it is hard for you to get one.

> (iii) There is a hole in the bow; I´ve been told it hit the dock in a storm.

Is it through all the fiberglass, or is it just surface damage? This is a pretty common thing on sailboats if it is just a surface job. You'll need to fiberglass, epoxy, expoxy paint with a primer, then do a finishing coat that matches your boat as best you can.

> (v) Check if the rigging is OK, and look forward into having it completely replaced. She is in the trailer at my yard, about 100 miles from the lake).

As I mentioned above, you can do the standing (wire) rigging yourself, only tools you need are a hacksaw and two large wrenches. But the fittings are a little more expensive.

> (vii) Bottom and top paint.

Orbital sander will help here, but be careful about toxic paint.


How is Amazon for you? Most if not all of these tools can be purchased there.
Edited by - odonnellryanc on 12/17/2017 16:57:34
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 12/17/2017 :  19:27:26  Show Profile
Victor,
If you have some time to look at YouTube, see how a gentleman from Denmark completely repaired an old boat that was in very bad condition, to almost new.

See Sail Life, Mads is the narrator - who is a software engineer who knew nothing about sailboat repair and decided to teach himself all about boat maintenance and fiberglass, and who maintains a good attitude and sense of humor at the same time.

Living in Denmark he's had a lot of trouble to get the right materials and parts for his repairs.

See Sail Life for the beginning of the series. Subscribe to the series to watch the entire series of agony and ecstasy with Mads and his boat Athena.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 12/17/2017 :  19:32:55  Show Profile
Horizontal versus perpendicular: the through hull fitting should fit snugly on the bottom of the hull. If that is a flat and horizontal part of the hull, it should be horizontal. If, however, the hull is slanted where the through-hull should go, then it should follow the shape of the hull. Do not place a through hull fitting on a highly curved portion of the hull (like underneath the transom or near the bow), but most places where the existing through hull fittings are placed (under the galley and beneath the head), these are fine places to put a new through hull fitting.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 12/18/2017 :  08:17:55  Show Profile
Good job with the photos, and good work grinding and preparing the thru-hull installation--there's no need to be vertical--it should be perpendicular. It looks to me that you have plenty of threads for the seacock.

The first thing I'd do about the rusty keel bolts is cover them with some "goop" (a technical term ) like roofing cement to slow the corrosion. You've probably seen that Catalina Direct has a kit for adding ("sistering") bolts into a cast iron keel, including a long drill bit, tap handle, and threaded stainless steel rod. You may be able to find the same components elsewhere, but it could be tricky finding those lengths. You'll need to use a cutting lubricant and be able to hold the drill very steady--a small drill-press would probably help a lot if you can set it up to make a vertical angle of attack. Some people here have done that job--use Search and check the Technical Tips area.

That said, I don't think there has been a report here of a fin keel falling off a C-25 in all these years. The studs and nuts for the early cast iron version are mild steel (stainless with the later lead keel), and can look bad at the heads, but apparently there's still enough steel there on these boats to hold the keel. Another concern, though, is the wood core at the bottom of the keel stub, that is supposed to strengthen the surface the keel is bolted to. That's part of the reason I would "goop" the existing bolts, as well as any new ones you add, to keep bilge water from seeping in. If you find rot in there when drilling, we should discuss it. In that case, it might be wise to fiberglass in a new composite core material right over the old bolts, and use it as the base for the new ones. But I'm just speculating--Catalina Yachts might have a better suggestion.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/18/2017 08:21:18
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VictorS
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Mexico
32 Posts
Response Posted - 12/19/2017 :  09:24:18  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

¡Hola y bienvenido a aqui! Hablo español muy mal porque estudio español solamente en el universidad cinco años pasado y no tengo practicar mucho nunca, pero quiero tener mas practicar. Hablo español menos del niño que tienen tres años. ¡Espero que te gusta su velero nuevo! ¡Salud!


Hola Seth, de hecho tu español es muy bueno¡ muchas gracias por tomarte el tiempo de escribirme, te mando un abrazo.
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C
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VictorS
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Mexico
32 Posts
Response Posted - 12/21/2017 :  15:24:03  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by odonnellryanc

Hey! Welcome to the forum!

> (ii) The already mentioned lack of experience in a lot of fields;

The book is written in English (not sure if you can find a Spanish translation) but if you can read as well as you write then I am sure you will be fine! https://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Complete-Illustrated-Sailboat-Maintenance/dp/0071462848

Absolutely worth the money several times over ... and worth a cover-to-cover read. There are several things that will save you big bucks if you learn them there first.

> (iii) no chance to find parts/tools/accesories/ in Mexico; but with some chance to go to TX to get them (mailed there);

You can usually get by without going insane on the tools. Seems your boat mostly needs fiberglass work done and rigging. You can do standing rigging yourself for slightly more money (without much risk from what I know) and most other things can be done with few tools.

For fiberglass, the one tool that was SUPER useful was the orbital sander. Looks like this: https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/3c438670-45f1-49ae-bd2a-8dca82fa0d15/svn/makita-disc-orbital-sanders-bo5041-64_1000.jpg

Buy a good one... well worth the $100 USD I spent on mine.

> (ii) Keel nuts/bolts are not in good shape;

This is an easy enough job. You will see people mention that you should use a torque wrench. Maybe others can comment on if this is required if it is hard for you to get one.

> (iii) There is a hole in the bow; I´ve been told it hit the dock in a storm.

Is it through all the fiberglass, or is it just surface damage? This is a pretty common thing on sailboats if it is just a surface job. You'll need to fiberglass, epoxy, expoxy paint with a primer, then do a finishing coat that matches your boat as best you can.

> (v) Check if the rigging is OK, and look forward into having it completely replaced. She is in the trailer at my yard, about 100 miles from the lake).

As I mentioned above, you can do the standing (wire) rigging yourself, only tools you need are a hacksaw and two large wrenches. But the fittings are a little more expensive.

> (vii) Bottom and top paint.

Orbital sander will help here, but be careful about toxic paint.


How is Amazon for you? Most if not all of these tools can be purchased there.



Ryan,

(ii) Thanks for your suggestion on that book, already added it on my cart at abebooks.com. I have already started a collection of top books under the idea to always have non-electronic references on board.

(iii) Yes, I got the makita orbital sander couple of months ago.

Keel nuts/bolts: Will search/ask for further details on it; I found a thread saying even if those are rusted may not necessarily means the keel needs to be removed but adding newer bolts may be OK; and that even in most cases no further action is needed. I am pretty sure those are rusted by water falling down from windows and hatch and no from the keel itself. Additional bolts I think will be my path.

Bow Hole: it was through all the fiberglass but we already closed it, and still in finishing process.

(v) Standing rigging: already gor the needed tools, but my preference is to get them professionally built.

(vii) Bottom paint: got the sander and I am figuring out how to protect the grass underneath the boat; of course the Admiral will kill me if something happens to the grass with the toxic paint falling down while sanding.

Amazon is OK, and I have the chance to periodically make it to south TX to pick up orders; and as described earlier I have been finding most of the materials locally.

I really appreciate your time and suggestions.
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C
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VictorS
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Mexico
32 Posts
Response Posted - 12/21/2017 :  15:27:39  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Victor,
If you have some time to look at YouTube, see how a gentleman from Denmark completely repaired an old boat that was in very bad condition, to almost new.

See Sail Life, Mads is the narrator - who is a software engineer who knew nothing about sailboat repair and decided to teach himself all about boat maintenance and fiberglass, and who maintains a good attitude and sense of humor at the same time.

Living in Denmark he's had a lot of trouble to get the right materials and parts for his repairs.

See Sail Life for the beginning of the series. Subscribe to the series to watch the entire series of agony and ecstasy with Mads and his boat Athena.



Certainly will do so Bruce, already suscribed, thankyou for your time and suggestion ¡¡
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C
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VictorS
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Mexico
32 Posts
Response Posted - 12/21/2017 :  15:34:00  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Horizontal versus perpendicular: the through hull fitting should fit snugly on the bottom of the hull. If that is a flat and horizontal part of the hull, it should be horizontal. If, however, the hull is slanted where the through-hull should go, then it should follow the shape of the hull. Do not place a through hull fitting on a highly curved portion of the hull (like underneath the transom or near the bow), but most places where the existing through hull fittings are placed (under the galley and beneath the head), these are fine places to put a new through hull fitting.


Bruce, I called GROCO´s tech support about this, they say I am absolutely OK since I am replacing in the factory built location.

Also watched Wayne Cannings videos again; so I feel comfortable about it.

Thankyou,
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C
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VictorS
1st Mate

Members Avatar

Mexico
32 Posts
Response Posted - 12/21/2017 :  15:40:42  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Good job with the photos, and good work grinding and preparing the thru-hull installation--there's no need to be vertical--it should be perpendicular. It looks to me that you have plenty of threads for the seacock.

The first thing I'd do about the rusty keel bolts is cover them with some "goop" (a technical term ) like roofing cement to slow the corrosion. You've probably seen that Catalina Direct has a kit for adding ("sistering") bolts into a cast iron keel, including a long drill bit, tap handle, and threaded stainless steel rod. You may be able to find the same components elsewhere, but it could be tricky finding those lengths. You'll need to use a cutting lubricant and be able to hold the drill very steady--a small drill-press would probably help a lot if you can set it up to make a vertical angle of attack. Some people here have done that job--use Search and check the Technical Tips area.

That said, I don't think there has been a report here of a fin keel falling off a C-25 in all these years. The studs and nuts for the early cast iron version are mild steel (stainless with the later lead keel), and can look bad at the heads, but apparently there's still enough steel there on these boats to hold the keel. Another concern, though, is the wood core at the bottom of the keel stub, that is supposed to strengthen the surface the keel is bolted to. That's part of the reason I would "goop" the existing bolts, as well as any new ones you add, to keep bilge water from seeping in. If you find rot in there when drilling, we should discuss it. In that case, it might be wise to fiberglass in a new composite core material right over the old bolts, and use it as the base for the new ones. But I'm just speculating--Catalina Yachts might have a better suggestion.



Dave, I already asked for professional support about this, I do not know the proper english term but it is one of those professional shops that build, repair, etc all kind of metal pieces, they seem to have everything (tools and materials) to do the job, and of course I might also get the CD kit,

I agree, will need to watch about the wood core, so I will report as I get there.

Thankyou for your time.
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 12/22/2017 :  11:45:11  Show Profile
I bought Catalina Direct's full set of standing rigging--high quality and fit perfectly (I was told by the rigger) and has bronze open-body turnbuckles--the best way to go. My rigger declined to compete with the price (and didn't need the work)--he said to buy CD's and he'd install. I was glad to have a pro check out the whole rig.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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VictorS
1st Mate

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Mexico
32 Posts
Response Posted - 01/28/2019 :  20:16:19  Show Profile
Hi All,

On my keel bolts issue. I have found different water leaks (from windows and deck hardware) which I will take care later (by now I have her totally covered with a waterproof tarp, yes that big).

I just do not figure it out, why the design (maybe is not the regular design but just the boat I got) allows water to arrive to the bilge from the compartments below seats? As you will see in the further pictures, having the compartment near the compression post totally closed and sealed would perfectly allow to stop water getting to the bilge which I think is quite critical since that is the location of the keel bolts, highly critical. I just don´t get it.

Ok, so in the next pic you can see I had pretty rotten wood where the bilge ends (bow side). My concern was if that wood connects with the wood core in the stub.





No, it does not connect with the wood core in the stub at any side. Why a piece of wood is needed in that area?

Once cleaned (picture below - note the wood stained the fiberglass but it is totally removed) (the Makita multitool made it easy as the area is difficult to work in, of course with the shop vac also) I am positive I have removed all of the rotten wood in the area, and I am ready to have it replaced if it is a must (which kind of wood do I need?) and have it again covered with fiberglass, etc.



Next picture is a top view from the seat compartment which I intend to have totally closed (fiberglass) and sealed, so no further water makes it to the bilge; only if I receive no further advice about not to do so. I would prefer to deal with water under the seat but not in the bilge area.



And as you can see in the next picture, I also found rotten wood in the bottom of the compression post; I have not removed it and not even cleaned the area, please again give me some advice about which kind of wood I will need to have it replaced. I am a bit eager to fill with penetrating epoxy, but of course will wait until I receive advice from the forum.



Other thing, the uper piece of the compression post, the one that goes from the seat corner up to the mast base, is loose, I do not find any sign of it being bolted or secured; I also need to report I have the port side bulkhead missing (will take care of that later), but even with that, the post has no sign of how does it get secured; of course I have it always sitting on its position to make sure it supports the deck (mast is not installed, but ocasionally I do walk on the deck) and avoid any deformation.

Later I will take care of the keel bolts, by now I made the tap test (hit all of the area with a hammer) and received a steady sound that make feel almost positive the wood core in the stub is Ok; with these, I am almost certain I will go by the "sistering" path later.

As always, thankyou all for taking the time to read my always-long-posts, and for your support providing advice.
Victor Salcedo
1978 C25. #453. FK. SR. L.
CTYK0453M78C
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 01/29/2019 :  00:12:29  Show Profile
Great work, Victor! If the keel stub core is solid, I would guess the keel bolts are OK, even if the tops and nuts show some rust. Everyone with a C-25 fin made before about 1984 sees rusty nuts on the keel bolts. As I mentioned a few years ago, a little "goop" on them will help keep them that way.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts
Response Posted - 01/29/2019 :  22:20:22  Show Profile
Mucho tiempo no te miro en aquí. Estoy feliz que tu regresar.

quote:
I just do not figure it out, why the design (maybe is not the regular design but just the boat I got) allows water to arrive to the bilge from the compartments below seats? As you will see in the further pictures, having the compartment near the compression post totally closed and sealed would perfectly allow to stop water getting to the bilge which I think is quite critical since that is the location of the keel bolts, highly critical. I just don´t get it.


It's better to have the water drain to a central location in the lowest part of the boat (a.k.a. the bilge) where it can be managed with one or two pumps, than to have it fester in multiple locations elsewhere in the boat, or possibly even raise the boat's center of gravity and reduce stability.

quote:

No, it does not connect with the wood core in the stub at any side. Why a piece of wood is needed in that area?


Fiberglass is rather flexible. Boat builders add wood to areas that they think need reinforcement or additional structural integrity. Although wood rots, it's hard to beat its weight to strength ratio, especially when considering cost.

quote:

Once cleaned (picture below - note the wood stained the fiberglass but it is totally removed) (the Makita multitool made it easy as the area is difficult to work in, of course with the shop vac also) I am positive I have removed all of the rotten wood in the area, and I am ready to have it replaced if it is a must (which kind of wood do I need?) and have it again covered with fiberglass, etc.


If you will seal the wood with epoxy or epoxy/fiberglass, then any hardwood will do.

quote:

Next picture is a top view from the seat compartment which I intend to have totally closed (fiberglass) and sealed, so no further water makes it to the bilge; only if I receive no further advice about not to do so. I would prefer to deal with water under the seat but not in the bilge area.


You should let water drain to the bilge for the reasons I mentioned above.

quote:

And as you can see in the next picture, I also found rotten wood in the bottom of the compression post; I have not removed it and not even cleaned the area, please again give me some advice about which kind of wood I will need to have it replaced. I am a bit eager to fill with penetrating epoxy, but of course will wait until I receive advice from the forum.


For wood exposed to a marine environment, you will want to use very hard/dense wood like mahogany or teak.

quote:

Other thing, the uper piece of the compression post, the one that goes from the seat corner up to the mast base, is loose, I do not find any sign of it being bolted or secured; I also need to report I have the port side bulkhead missing (will take care of that later), but even with that, the post has no sign of how does it get secured; of course I have it always sitting on its position to make sure it supports the deck (mast is not installed, but ocasionally I do walk on the deck) and avoid any deformation.


The post is probably loose because your mast is down, or possibly because of the rot at the base of the compression post. When you raise your mast and tighten your standing rigging, which will compress the deck, your compression post may no longer be loose.

quote:

As always, thankyou all for taking the time to read my always-long-posts, and for your support providing advice.


De nada


Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/
Edited by - sethp001 on 01/29/2019 22:22:18
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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts
Response Posted - 01/30/2019 :  04:50:46  Show Profile  Visit OLarryR's Homepage
Welcome to the Forum !

In regards to leaks from windows and deck fittings. Also, ensure no leakage from the mast deck plate/bolts. If there is leak through it will be apparent from water staining adjacent to the compression post on the cabin floor. Besides the leak contributing to water collecting in the bilge, a major concern for some is that over many years, the cabin top becomes soft from water causing dry rot and then that compromises the rigidity/strength of the cabin top.
Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 01/30/2019 :  14:39:28  Show Profile
For the compression post, I would use pressure-treated Douglas fir. Coating it with unthickened epoxy is a good idea, especially soaking the bottom end, which is most prone to absorbing moisture. Fir is already fairly resonous, and the pressure-treated versions are rated for being in the ground in construction. I wouldn't epoxy the whole piece or the top end--just the part that will likely contact bilge water. That way moisture can wick up and "breathe" out. Some hardwoods like teak and oak are oily and don't take epoxy that well. And for a good sized hunk, P/T fir will be a lot cheaper!
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 01/30/2019 :  17:19:25  Show Profile
Dave, I’d have to agree that for any structural wood replacements, pressure treated Douglas Fir or southern yellow pine would work out well. I agree that it should be coated with a few coats of thickened epoxy. Unless you will see the wood, there’s no point using teak or mahogany to replace rotten structural members.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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