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 Mast slot for luff on sail
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Captmorgan
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/14/2013 :  20:14:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why is there that wide slot in the mast that allows the sail slugs to out of the track. Is there a device that would allow the sail to be flaked and folded with those Teflon bullets never coming. Is there a fix for this?

"The Gal-Way" 1985 SR/SK Colonial Beach, VA

Enjoy Sailing =) Be Safe

Happy Sailing - John

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
5256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2013 :  20:37:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mast gate plates.

Another option is a sail track stop in the slot just above the gate. But the gate plates have the advantage of allowing the slugs to go down to the gooseneck when you're reefing. The track stop keeps them higher, so the reef isn't quite as tidy.

The "wide slot" or opening is so you can install ("bend on") and remove the sail without taking the mast down.

Dave Bristle
Past member, USCG OUPV, and Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
DPO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/15/2013 07:34:19
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Captmorgan
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Response Posted - 09/15/2013 :  07:55:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, seems like maybe Ill get one because you could drop faster without a mess. When you have to reef couldn't you just remove it and drop them down a level

Yesterday I had to raise the sail and reef on the way up. I don't like that it just seemed awkard almost seems like it would be good to have the reef in and then release it. The easy reef system works well that way.

I also had a issue I wanted to ask about. When the wind is at 15+ knots and your trying to raise the sail and put a reef in it was not fun. The cat sits out of the water and wind "grabs" her and sends it out of the wind. I found it a battle. I didnt have too much room in front before the shallow so going faster was not really and option.

I could have motor out further so I could go faster. Whats the right way to raise sails in higher winds. should I have reefed at the dock.

John PS thanks for your help.


quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

Mast gate plates.

Another option is a sail track stop in the slot just above the gate. But the gate plates have the advantage of allowing the slugs to go down to the gooseneck when you're reefing. The track stop keeps them higher, so the reef isn't quite as tidy.

The "wide slot" or opening is so you can install ("bend on") and remove the sail without taking the mast down.


"The Gal-Way" 1985 SR/SK Colonial Beach, VA

Enjoy Sailing =) Be Safe

Happy Sailing - John

Drone View of The Galway Picture taken with Helicopter Drone


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GaryB
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Response Posted - 09/15/2013 :  08:11:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Definitely reef at the dock. As you said, you can always take the reef out later. When I had hank-on sails I also always made sure I had the right size jib on for the conditions before leaving the dock.

Make sure you heading directly into the wind before trying to raise your sails. Being off to one side just a little can make things get exciting quickly.


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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
5256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2013 :  19:10:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Definitely reef at the dock. As you said, you can always take the reef out later. When I had hank-on sails I also always made sure I had the right size jib on for the conditions before leaving the dock.

Make sure you heading directly into the wind before trying to raise your sails...
...and the sheets released, and the motor still maintaining steerage speed into the wind.

Dave Bristle
Past member, USCG OUPV, and Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
DPO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Captmorgan
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2013 :  20:28:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What do you mean sheet released. So you mean you leave the main sheet released so you dont start sailing. Dont you have to worry about the boom swinging. or is is safer to just let it go with the wind and try to keep the boat centered.

"The Gal-Way" 1985 SR/SK Colonial Beach, VA

Enjoy Sailing =) Be Safe

Happy Sailing - John

Drone View of The Galway Picture taken with Helicopter Drone


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Davy J
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Response Posted - 09/16/2013 :  06:00:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
What do you mean sheet released. So you mean you leave the main sheet released so you dont start sailing. Dont you have to worry about the boom swinging. or is is safer to just let it go with the wind and try to keep the boat centered.

With the mainsheet loose, the sail is free to remain pointed into the wind. It usually stays centered, but if the wind turns the boat slightly the boom will swing to keep the sail pointed into the wind.

I cannot use a mast gate. I use a sail stop. I also have the main halyard marked at the point I need to lower the sail to reef it. That way, when I remove the sail stop, only the necessary sail slugs fall out of the mast.


Davy J

1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 09/16/2013 :  08:30:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Captmorgan

What do you mean sheet released. So you mean you leave the main sheet released so you dont start sailing. Dont you have to worry about the boom swinging. or is is safer to just let it go with the wind and try to keep the boat centered.

The mainsheet and boom vang (and downhaul, if you have one) should be released when you raise the mainsail. If you don't release the mainsheet, the sail might fill and load up before you can get the sail raised to the top of the mast. If the mainsail loads up with wind, it makes it very difficult to raise it to the top of the mast. Also, if the vang is tensioned, it can also make it impossible to raise the sail all the way.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C&C 35 Landfall
Past Commodore
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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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257 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2013 :  17:24:17  Show Profile  Send BCG-Woodbury an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I cheat a little, I motor out and head into the wind while I raise my sails. Nobody ever told me any differently and it appears to be working. I drop them in the same manner and motor in. When I get a little better I'll try it without motoring. Being on a lake and in a cove does present some challenges.

On a slightly dirrefernt topic, my Windex got shifted slightly when we raised the mast, the options are:

A) Leave it as is and sail?
B) Drop the mast and fix it?
C) Climb the same 28-Foot ladder I did last year yo fix the halyard?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian & JoAnne G.
Knot So Fast
1984 Catalina 25, SR/SK
Traditional Interior
Lake Candlewood, CT
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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 09/16/2013 :  17:28:02  Show Profile  Send BCG-Woodbury an AOL message  Reply with Quote
BTW, CD sells the gate, it does require you to Drill and Tap the mast to install it. Not a tough job and well worth it. I struggled with it for half the season until I called the PO only to find out that it was in the drawer in the cabin.

Best of luck,

Brian & JoAnne G.
Knot So Fast
1984 Catalina 25, SR/SK
Traditional Interior
Lake Candlewood, CT
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GaryB
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3289 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2013 :  18:11:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Trust me I've forgotten to release the sheets on more than one windy day and it gets hairy real quick!

Motoring out while raising the sails is not cheating, it's the proper way unless the winds are really calm.


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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
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Captmorgan
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 :  16:03:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been motoring into the wind to raise them but I did have the main sheet taught to keep the boom steady. On a really windy day thought the wind will keep forcing the boat off wind. So Im understanding if I let the boom free ( main sheet free) it will turn and luff in the wind regardless of boat position,

Of course I would try to maintain course but this seems like a good improvement Ill try it.

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

Trust me I've forgotten to release the sheets on more than one windy day and it gets hairy real quick!

Motoring out while raising the sails is not cheating, it's the proper way unless the winds are really calm.


"The Gal-Way" 1985 SR/SK Colonial Beach, VA

Enjoy Sailing =) Be Safe

Happy Sailing - John

Drone View of The Galway Picture taken with Helicopter Drone


Photo Album
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
5256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 :  20:52:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you keep the sail luffing (sheet released), it's a lot easier to hoist it to the top, and the boat won't try to sail off in another direction while you're still hoisting. A little swinging of the boom isn't a big deal if you're hoisting at the mast or even forward in the cockpit.

Dave Bristle
Past member, USCG OUPV, and Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
DPO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/23/2013 20:53:43
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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1924 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 :  09:23:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you do not have a mast gate installed then you cannot reef properly under sail. If you cannot reef properly under sail then you are not "prepared" for what is out there. Sail stops are an absurd solution that should be outlawed... IMHO. GaryB I love you man but I cannot imagine reefing at the dock unless it was blowing frighteningly hard and I was forced to take my boat out on a rescue mission. (Of course if you want to reef at the dock it is fine and you should get a good reef set but that is a thing you do when taking people out who are afraid of heeling.) I usually reef sailing down wind in a blow to prepare to turn back up wind. I sail a lake and when I get as far to weather as I can go then I turn back down for a run and shake out the reef... an hour later when I have to head back up I put the reef back in. Every time I put the reef in or shake it out my sail is set properly with the right amount of sail shape. Master what needs to be mastered lest you get mastered.

Sail stops save manufacturers money and boat owners mistakenly think they are proper mast hardware because of it. They belong on daysailers not keel boats. ...IMHO

I raise my main on pretty much any point of sail, I just make sure the main and vang and back stay adjuster are "off". Remember its the sail that needs to luff, not the boat. One caveat to releasing the main all the way is to keep it a little tight if raising the main down wind. If the main is in the center of the boat down wind it catches very little air and goes up just fine.

Have fun and design your hardware layout to fit your needs and then use it.

Frank Hopper
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Davy J
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Response Posted - 09/24/2013 :  10:02:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
If you do not have a mast gate installed then you cannot reef properly under sail. If you cannot reef properly under sail then you are not "prepared" for what is out there. Sail stops are an absurd solution that should be outlawed...

Sorry, but this advice is BS..... I use a sail stop and can reef my mainsail, in the ocean, in under 15 seconds. Plan your work.... Work your plan. It just takes the right amount of skill and practice... Sorry Frank, been doing it this way for almost ten years....

Davy J

1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/24/2013 :  12:26:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't imagine going to the mast, removing a sail top, letting all the slugs that need to pass the the slot opening past, then putting the stop back in. I release my main halyard clutch, pull the main down with my tack reef line, close the tack reef line clutch, raise the main halyard back up to the right tension; the clutch holds it perfectly, then haul on the clew reef line through its clutch until the foot is the right tension and sail away with a perfect sail shape, all done in the cockpit. How do you do that when you are removing and replacing a sailstop at the mast? Sorry I just don't understand how the two processes can be compared for safety, effectiveness and time. WHY would anyone use sail stops after they became aware of a mast gate? If it is a "thing" you enjoy doing like splicing line or some other mariner thing then fine but it is inconceivable to me to use a sail stop. How do you tighten the knurled knob so the stop won't pull out of position? You obviously make sure to get the metal replacement knob since most come with nylon knobs which will strip out.

I don't doubt you are happy with a sail stop solution because of your post but I think you need a gate for christmas. I use the quick reply so I have no emoticons but of course this is all very friendly.

Frank Hopper

Edited by - pastmember on 09/24/2013 12:28:05
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Davy J
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Response Posted - 09/24/2013 :  12:53:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not all of us have the same situation. I am unable to use a mast gate.

You may not remember my problem, but I have to lower, and then raise my mast, every time I go out and then when I come back in. Every time, the boom has to come out of the mast, and put on the deck so that can happen.

And yes, I have to go to the mast to reef. But I have the main halyard marked. I lower it to that point, at the clutch. Go to the mast, slide the sail stop down past the opening, let the sail slugs out, only two sail slugs need to come out, slide the stop back up, tack the sail to a reefing hook, tension the foot and clew. Go back, re-tension the halyard and, usually, trim the mainsheet.... done.

So yes it can be done with a sail stop. If I didn't have to raise and lower the mast to go sailing, I would get a mast gate. But for now, I have this routine down....

ETA: in my case, only two sail slugs need to be removed, other mainsails may be different.

Davy J

1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Edited by - Davy J on 09/24/2013 13:08:38
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/24/2013 :  13:15:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would gladly trade you my piss ant lake for your venue, you are a lucky guy to sail big water.

Frank Hopper
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Davy J
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Response Posted - 09/24/2013 :  13:27:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
you are a lucky guy to sail big water.

It's not always what it's cracked up to be...... You know, usually wishing you had a bigger.... heavier.... full keel.... cutter rig.... dodger.... you get the idea....


Davy J

1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
5256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 :  15:45:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Davy J

quote:
you are a lucky guy to sail big water.

It's not always what it's cracked up to be...
I like it... New York City is over here, Portugal is over there, Block Island and Martha's Vineyard are in between...

Regarding the gates, I might be having trouble imagining the whole mast raising process, but I'm wondering if four thumb-screws could allow you to quickly mount the plates at the end of your process. Then reefing could be done from the cockpit, as Frank describes. Of course, if you're happy with what you have.....

Regarding reefing at the dock, Frank, some of us have different thrill/comfort ratios from yours, often related to the others aboard. In chop that's pitching the boat, a reef is easier to shake out when it's not needed, than to set when conditions turn out to be as forecast, but worse than they looked from the dock.

Dave Bristle
Past member, USCG OUPV, and Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
DPO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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3289 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 :  16:45:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

...GaryB I love you man but I cannot imagine reefing at the dock unless it was blowing frighteningly hard and I was forced to take my boat out on a rescue mission. (Of course if you want to reef at the dock it is fine and you should get a good reef set but that is a thing you do when taking people out who are afraid of heeling.)


Come on down to the bay when it's blowing hard out of the SE. You'll see why it's easier to do it at the dock.

The one time I did reef it was blowing frighteningly hard and I was going out solo in Galveston Bay with a hank-on jib just to see how my boat handled in rough conditions. Turned out to be fun but a whole lot of work!

Normally, if it's blowing hard enough to reef I stay at the dock.

For me it's not worth it to go out when you're going to get beat up. I'm more of a fair weather sailor who has the experience to make it back if things get out of hand unexpectedly.


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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 09/24/2013 16:47:07
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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1924 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2013 :  07:34:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the issue that drives my reefing "attitude" is that my small lake means I will be going down wind soon and then upwind soon and usually downwind is more fun with full sail; so its in and out all day long on a windy day. A dear friend and I went sailing the other say and he used to have a Starwind 223 like mine, after an hour or so he asked if I ever look away from the tell tales for more than 30 seconds at a time... no. We all love sailing and it is such a wealth of stimulation that we all find what pleases us, for me it is focus on the rig. I am off to go sail!



PS: if "you" don't wear gloves every time you sail then my advice is probably not right for most topics.

Frank Hopper

Edited by - pastmember on 09/25/2013 07:41:29
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JohnP
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Response Posted - 09/25/2013 :  10:22:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When the wind is 15, 20 or 25 knots, I enjoy going sailing, but only after reefing the main at the dock or at anchor. It's something I learned from discussions on this Forum!

With high winds I also bend on my 60% storm jib, which changes the C-25 into a different boat that can comfortably handle the conditions.

Years ago I learned to sail from a buddy who never reefs his C-25 mainsail, and standing on the gunwale while the boat is heeled over at 45 degrees became routine! But now I know that the more adjustments you have available for the rig, the better the ride will be under all conditions!

I installed a mast gate, and it's a useful mod.

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/26/2013 :  09:49:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
DavyJ, have you checked out this mast gate. Might be an answer to your mast raising/lowering problem using a gate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nSHNOjpHrc
Looks interesting.

DavidP
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN
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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/26/2013 :  10:12:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
DavyJ, have you checked out this mast gate. Might be an answer to your mast raising/lowering problem using a gate:


Well, that's pretty nifty. Thanks for that link.

I'm not convinced it would make reefing that much easier though. For me to use a two line reefing set-up, I would still have to rig and de-rig the lines so that I could remove the boom.

And unlike Frank, I usually don't have to reef and/or shake out the reef frequently. Here on the Suncoast our winds are pretty steady.

If there is a need to reef, I usually stay reefed the entire day.




Davy J

1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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