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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

What sail is this?

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Sublime
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/15/2017 : 20:04:40

I picked up a '77 Catalina 25, swing keel, standard rig.

I was picking through it today to see what all I have and this is one of the sails. Seems smaller than everything else. I haven't unpacked it yet. As far as head sails, I have a 150, something labeled a "class" sail which I think is a 110, and this. Any guesses?

[url=https://ibb.co/iM175m]

[/url] [url=https://ibb.co/dG9S5m]

[/url]

***This post is made of recycled electrons

Edited by - Sublime on 10/15/2017 20:26:28

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 04:03:43

What I can make out is Jib and Dacron and some numbers. A Jib should be less than 100%, Around 90% and it's used for strong wind conditions. Dacron is Dacron, The cloth. Lay it out and measure the sail. If it is a jib the foot should be less than our J. Measurement of 10'6". It also could be a sail that is stuffed into a different bag so until you measure it who knows. Congrats on the new, old boat!

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 10/16/2017 04:30:20

Bladeswell
Captain

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Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 07:43:16

Hello Everyone,

I was under the impression that the OEM standard for most boats was a 110% working "Jib". Am I mistaken ?

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 08:20:24

quote:
Originally posted by Bladeswell

Hello Everyone,

I was under the impression that the OEM standard for most boats was a 110% working "Jib". Am I mistaken ?

Bladeswell

As far as I know, there is no standard. I bought my C25 new without sails. I ordered a set from North. On the order form for the boat, the buyer specified whatever sails he wanted.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 09:21:30

As far as terminology I was under the impression that a sail under 100% was a jib. Over 100% was a Genoa. I think many sailors use one or the other term for any head sail.http://www.nauticedsailingschool.com/learn-to-sail-series-the-types-of-sails-and-uses-%E2%80%93-the-jib-and-genoa

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 10/16/2017 09:26:04

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 09:59:44

The Merriam-Webster definition of Jib is: a triangular sail set on a stay extending usually from the head of the foremast to the bowsprit or the jibboom; also :the small triangular headsail on a sloop

The Merriam-Webster definition of Genoa is: a large jib that overlaps the mainsail and is used especially in racing

I have always thought "jib" is the generic term for any triangular headsail, especially on a sloop, which might, or might not, be overlapping, and genoa is more specifically an overlapping jib.

I think most of us tacitly recognize that the term "jib" encompasses overlapping, as well as non-overlapping sails when we refer to the sheets on a genoa as jib sheets, instead of genoa sheets.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Bladeswell
Captain

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490 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 12:29:15

Hi Again,

And thanks for the clarification. Now that you mention it, I do remember that years ago when looking at the brand new C25 the sails were optional and the buyers choice. But my question was really about Scott's reference to the "jib". And you cleared that up for me nicely.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 14:11:04

In my experience, the term "jib" or "working jib" on a sloop generally refers to a 100-110% headsail, and a 90% or smaller jib is sometimes referred to as a "blade jib" (needed for a self-tacking configuration like a club-foot or Hoyt boom), or a "storm jib" (especially if made from heavier material). "Genoa" seems to be the common term for a sail larger than 110%.

To be the size of the "foretriangle" of the boat (the triangle between the forestay and mast), a sail has to be smaller than 100%, because the percentage is calculated using the "luff perpendicular" (LP), not the foot of the sail, divided by the base of the foretriangle. The LP is the length of a line perpendicular to the luff, that goes to the clew. So a 100% jib will overlap the mainsail slightly. Depending on the clew height, 90% typically won't.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2017 : 14:40:43

The term "Jib" is a generic term for all of the triangular headsails. Genoas are just one type of Jib, and as noted generally refers to jibs which overlap the mast. In common usage, people will often refer in short-hand to their working jib as their 'jib'. Working jibs vary in size from less than 100% foretriangle sails (such as would be the case with a self-tacking sail to what are effectively small genoas, typically less than or equal to around 110%.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 10/16/2017 14:44:29

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2017 : 04:43:46

Looks like this subject has been kicked around pretty good. I always considered any sail that came into vicinity of the mast as a jib. So, 90-110% considered it a jib. Anything above that was a genoa. Anything less than say 90% was then considered a storm jib. Going back to the original question - He has a 150 and a sail called a "Class" sail which he believes is a 110. Seems easy enough to figure out what the sail in the bag is without us all guessing - Take the sail out and lay it over the 110 and see how it compares. Bottom line is if it is significantly smaller than the 110, then you probably will only use it in stiff breezes. If it is same size as the 110 or slightly shorter cut, well you may use it interchangeably with the 110. It would be nice to find out that it is actually packed tighter in the bag but is actually in-between the size of the 110 and the 150, maybe a 135.

The thing is that unless you unpack the sail, you really do not know what you have since not all sailcloth is of the same weight...and therefore the bulkiness or lack of bulkiness looking at the sailbag may be misleading. Seems easy enough to resolve this by taking it out of the bag and then take the dimensions and compare against the sail dimensions provided in the Forum's Catalina Tech Manuals as to actual sail dimensions.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2017 : 09:56:31

Google thesailwarehouse. They have a very good listing page that gives you the class dimensions for the various sails.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2017 : 14:10:01

quote:
Originally posted by dmpilc

Google thesailwarehouse. They have a very good listing page that gives you the class dimensions for the various sails.

...here. Just select Catalina 25 (tall or standard) on the right.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/17/2017 14:12:41

Phredde
Navigator

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2017 : 15:56:24

Hi - I am not an expert on this, but I was doing some research on sails and found this calculator online. Once you measure you can find out the overlap.

http://l-36.com/LP_calc.php

This one has a good description of the terms and formulas
http://www.sailboat-cruising.com/sail-dimensions.html

And lastly here are some measurements from the manual for a C-25 standard rig in feet.

Cat 25
Jib Mast Height: I 29.0
Jib Dist Mast to Forestay: J 10.5
Forestay Length 30.8
Main Mast Height: P 24.7
Main Dist to Outhaul: E 9.6
Listed Sail Area Jib (sq ft.) 152.3
Listed Sail Area Main (sq ft.) 118.1
Listed Sail Area Total (sq ft.) 270.4

Phredde
Catalina 25
San Francisco

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