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 Our mainsail mast track
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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
130 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/13/2018 :  07:35:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Finally had the time and the weather to put my new main on and go for the first sail of the season ... Until I go to put the slides in the track , they are quite large and flat and do not even fit thru the gate let alone into the track . Checked my old ones when I got home they are smaller and round . Have to send sail back now for correction .
My question is do any of our boats have the mast track that accepts these bigger flat slides ? Or are they just wrong ?

Angus
"Tempus"
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1460 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  07:45:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Catalina Direct carries the right sized slugs.

Jerry
Whisper
C-25, #1672,'80, SR/SK
S. Jamesport, NY
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dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  08:11:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh my! The same thing happened to me! I got my new mainsail from Catalina Direct//ullman and the slides do not fit into my mast gate.

What is even more disappointing is I have really had to work with CD to get them to believe me. Several rounds of sending pics. I even got a reply saying they ARE the correct slides. (I thought to myself, “ummm, do you wanna come over and show me how to insert them?”)

This is frustrating after waiting 6 months to receive the sail. I bought a new sail after my old one tore, so I now have no functioning mainsail. I also have a San Juans cruise scheduled in 4 weeks. After a week of emailing and calling CD, I still have no solution being offered and still have the un-usable sail at my house.

The slides are sewn on, so it isn’t as easy as just replacing them.

Grrrrrrrrr!

I wanna go sailing!!

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1983 Vagabond 14
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4055 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  08:46:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you can find a dozen or so of the correct slugs, you can literally “sister” them to the current slugs. [That may be a politically incorrect term]. Just clip them to the current slugs and go sailing. Do you also have a separate line to pull down your sail? I tied a 3/16”line to the 2nd topmost slug to pull the sail down when I want to douse it.

Take a look at these from [url=“http://www.apsltd.com/3-8-slug-slide-stainless-bail.html”]Bainbridge[/url]

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain Stratford & Milford, CT
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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
130 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  08:51:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It very disappointing for sure , buying a new sail takes some justification ( at least for me ) its a big ticket item . Plus I had it for two months before I could try it out . I dealt with Ullman out of Anacortes directly and they seemed very professional and cooperative , so I'm hoping things will work out when I contact them on Monday .

Angus
"Tempus"
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.
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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
130 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  08:58:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

If you can find a dozen or so of the correct slugs, you can literally “sister” them to the current slugs. [That may be a politically incorrect term]. Just clip them to the current slugs and go sailing. Do you also have a separate line to pull down your sail? I tied a 3/16”line to the 2nd topmost slug to pull the sail down when I want to douse it.

Take a look at these from [url=“http://www.apsltd.com/3-8-slug-slide-stainless-bail.html”]Bainbridge[/url]


So far my sail comes down pretty fast when in irons , but the line is a great idea . As far as slugs go I'll see how things unfold on Monday .

Angus
"Tempus"
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.
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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3730 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  11:16:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
WM carries a wide selection of slides, and they aren't expensive. Any sailmaker can replace them, but CD should stand behind what they sell. I don't think any C-25 has an external track for flat slides.


Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle
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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
130 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  11:26:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave5041

WM carries a wide selection of slides, and they aren't expensive. Any sailmaker can replace them, but CD should stand behind what they sell. I don't think any C-25 has an external track for flat slides.


I went thru Ullman directly ,taking advantage of the fall CD sale , so I'm more then optimistic they will sort it out . I'd rather have it professionally done if possible , being a new sail and all .

Angus
"Tempus"
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.
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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1714 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  11:51:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are the problem slides shaped like thin rectangles, rather than cylinders with spherical ends? On other boat brands I've seen mast slot shaped like it was formed around a T-track, instead of around a cylinder.

I seem to remember something about Catalina changing spar extrusion suppliers awhile back, possibly during the production run of the Catalina 25. I think when looking up mast parts for a Catalina 22, there's a note about which brand of extrusion do you have?

I'm not a fan of slugs sewn on with webbing. I prefer sturdy slugs attached with metal shackles to metal grommets behind a bolt rope. I'll put up with the weight aloft, noise, and air gap in exchange for serviceability.

-- Leon Sisson
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3267 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  11:54:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
My question is do any of our boats have the mast track that accepts these bigger flat slides ? Or are they just wrong ?


Angus, as far as I know they are the round type like this

Even Catalina Direct shows the round slugs for a Cat25. https://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/45/sail-slide-plastic--shackle-set.cfm
Ullman has made hundreds of Cat 25 sails with the right slugs so why suddenly are they telling you that flat slugs are correct is a mystery.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 05/13/2018 12:20:10
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3267 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  12:02:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
I'm not a fan of slugs sewn on with webbing. I prefer sturdy slugs attached with metal shackles to metal grommets behind a bolt rope.

I agree, You can change a broken slug on the fly in 10 min. without having to take the sail to a shop. They will be mandatory whenever I order a new sail.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
130 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  12:39:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by islander

quote:
My question is do any of our boats have the mast track that accepts these bigger flat slides ? Or are they just wrong ?


Angus, as far as I know they are the round type like this

Even Catalina Direct shows the round slugs for a Cat25. https://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/45/sail-slide-plastic--shackle-set.cfm
Ullman has made hundreds of Cat 25 sails with the right slugs so why suddenly are they telling you that flat slugs are correct is a mystery.


Have not been in contact with Ullman yet , Office is open Monday

Angus
"Tempus"
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.
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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
130 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  13:17:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leon Sisson

Are the problem slides shaped like thin rectangles, rather than cylinders with spherical ends? On other boat brands I've seen mast slot shaped like it was formed around a T-track, instead of around a cylinder.

I seem to remember something about Catalina changing spar extrusion suppliers awhile back, possibly during the production run of the Catalina 25. I think when looking up mast parts for a Catalina 22, there's a note about which brand of extrusion do you have?

I'm not a fan of slugs sewn on with webbing. I prefer sturdy slugs attached with metal shackles to metal grommets behind a bolt rope. I'll put up with the weight aloft, noise, and air gap in exchange for serviceability.

-- Leon Sisson


They are thin rectangles that don’t fit in the gate .

Angus
"Tempus"
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.
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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
130 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2018 :  16:09:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all the helpful input (as usual) I'll update my progress .

Angus
"Tempus"
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.
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dasreboot
Admiral

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713 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2018 :  06:09:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ive replaced a few slides on my uhlamn main. the white plastic ones break at the battens. takes about 20 min to replace the webbing sewn in sliders. next sail i order will have sliders held on by shackles.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
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C25BC
Navigator

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Canada
130 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2018 :  17:40:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Mrs. dropped of the sail today at Ullman . I will be picking it up On Saturday. All is well in the universe .

Angus
"Tempus"
#4748
1984 Catalina 25 SK/SR/Trad.
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dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2018 :  23:13:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,

I mentioned in a previous reply that I was also having difficulty with sail slides not fitting in the mast gate on my new CD/Ullman sail. By the way, it is a 2+2 batten tall rig mainsail.

In my situation, the slides are the correct round shape, with stainless steel bails and attached with sewn-on webbing. However, they are 10mm in diameter while my old ones are 9mm. Apparently the gate is about 9.4mm. I am also a bit bummed about the sewn webbing for the reasons stated by others.

CD has suggested several solutions, two of which I am considering as possible. I would value the input of this forum before deciding.

1) I use a dremel or some such tool to widen the gate to receive the existing 10mm slides. BTW, my mast is down, so I was able to test the slides in the slot by feeding them from the bottom of the mast. The 10mm slides DO fit the mast slot, just not the gate.

2) I return the sail to Ullman for slide replacement. CD and Ullman are discouraging this option, but they are willing to do it. The reason stated is that they would have to switch to smaller diameter, all plastic slides and they believe I will experience excessive breakage of slides in the full batten areas.

What do you all think? Any better ideas?

Anything I can/should do about the sewn webbing issue? Frankly, I never considered the new sail would have sewn webbing, fully assumed it would come with shackled slides. DOH!

Thanks for sharing you experience with me...

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1983 Vagabond 14
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3267 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2018 :  05:25:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just widen the gate. I reshaped my gate with a file to fit my mast gates. The webbing will last a long time so until you have a problem I would just leave it.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 05/17/2018 05:28:30
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dasreboot
Admiral

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713 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2018 :  06:37:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The webbing should not be a problem. Mine has lasted fine. It's just a pain in the butt to replace broken slides. Sounds like you have better slides anyways.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
315 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2018 :  20:32:58  Show Profile  Visit Lee Panza's Homepage  Reply with Quote
When I had my new main built I got nylon slugs with the SS bail running down into the barrel, and I had them seized on with webbing. The slugs are unlikely to break at their narrow necks, with the bails providing substantial reinforcing, and the webbing tends to encourage them to stay oriented parallel to the luff instead of pivoting inside the tunnel, so they have less tendency to bind. Check out the Sailrite website for the variety of slugs and slides they provide, as well as their suggestions about how to secure them to the sail.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)
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dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2018 :  06:34:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just to follow-up on my slide situation, I filed the mast gate wider and the new (over-sized but stronger) slides fit great!

I spent about 10-15 minutes filing the side that was already widened for the gate. It was easy work. I placed a towel under the area to catch shavings, then shook it out in the trash. The gate still has plenty of material left to be strong; in fact, it doesn’t look any wider.

Very pleased and easy!

Thanks again for the guidance and support!

Dale

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1983 Vagabond 14
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cat25
1st Mate

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USA
97 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2018 :  09:48:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
purchased a full batton mainsail from mack sails. It came with flat slides they said they work better. Had to use dremel tool on one side to fit into slot. They work well satisfied

Ken
Chenango~
1990~TR~WK~C25~#6022
Stamford Ct/LI Sound
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
7881 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2018 :  11:17:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cat25

purchased a full batton mainsail from mack sails. It came with flat slides they said they work better. Had to use dremel tool on one side to fit into slot. They work well satisfied

A "square peg in a round hole"... Doesn't sound great long-term to me. Flat slugs are meant for a flat track, which on some boats is a separate extrusion attached to the mast. I don't think I've seen a flat track on a C-25, and I seriously doubt any before about 1988 had them. Mack got it wrong--I'd make the get it right.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/19/2018 11:21:19
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3267 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2018 :  13:55:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm surprised at Mack Sails whom I would consider to be a higher end sail maker. I don't understand how they couldn't have the correct slugs, They make sails, Not storm doors and I'm sure this isn't their first rodeo with a Catalina. I agree with Dave. Our slug tracks are curved. A flat slug will bridge the track putting all of the stress on the outside edges making them prone to breaking I would think. Will they work? Sure, But the real question is will they last.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 06/19/2018 14:00:53
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
7881 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2018 :  20:41:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by islander

...Will they work? Sure, But the real question is will they last.

And will they carve two grooves in (and maybe through) the cylindrical groove, and will they slide easily (or at all) when you're trying to douse the main in a squall. Things are designed to work with other things--but some aren't.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic, CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3267 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2018 :  04:22:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also think that the barrel shaped slugs have the ability to rotate left or right depending on your tack something the flat slugs might not be able to do.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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