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 Sailpro 6hp
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archimedes
Deckhand

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Initially Posted - 11/03/2018 :  19:42:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,
I know most recommend an outboard in the 8 - 9.9hp range for the C25.

But I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Tohatsu Sailpro 6hp with a high thrust prop on a C25.

My 9.9hp engine died and I'm not sad to lose 110 pounds off my motor bracket. It was back breaking trying to lift that thing up. If I have to get another 9.9 I'm going to have to replace the motor bracket too - and combined that's gonna be approaching $3k. That's more than my boat is worth and more than I want to spend.

The Sailpro is less than 60 pounds, is much cheaper, and I can use my existing motor bracket. But it's a false economy if it doesn't move the boat safely and effectively.

I know that the larger engine will provide more power but I don't know if it's really necessary - so someone with experience would help.

I'm not going to be cruising long distances just day sailing. But there is some (predictable) tidal current where I sail - which I could avoid with proper planning.

Thanks for any feedback

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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329 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2018 :  21:10:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had an old tohatsu 5 hp that I used for a while. It would get me up to speed but just didnít jump out of the hole. It had power enough to push me around just didnít have the power to really take control. It felt under powered because it was. I wouldnít want to rely on it for any conditions other than perfect ones. It is after all a sailboat....I donít really use my outboard for anything but dead calm situations or getting in or out of my slip (without any wind) but itís nice to know that the 9.8 Nissan I have can take control if needed....So the answer is, it depends on the situation you call on the outboard to handle. I donít think itís any less safe than a bigger HP, thatís on you and how much you rely on it but it is less effective.


Mark-
'Impulse...í
1978 C25 #533 SR/DIN/FIN ~_/)~
Bakersfield, CA.
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3358 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2018 :  06:02:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe that Rob, DavidBuoy, had that SailPro 6hp. Maybe he could help but I haven't seen him post in a while.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/04/2018 :  07:54:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are a few factors to consider. Do you sail on a lake or a dammed up river, or do you have to deal with tides and currents? If the latter then youíd probably need a larger engine.
Are you on a large body of water where, if the winds kicks up for a long time, youíll get large chop and breaking waves? If so, you probably need a larger engine.
If you rarely go out into challenging winds or donít have to deal with currents, then a smaller engine to get in and out of the marina would be fine.
Iíve had 10 miles to go dead into the wind against a fierce chop fighting the current. Thatís when Iím glad to have a 110 pound 8 HP engine.
I noticed a Tohatsu 8HP engine that weights 85 pounds. I canít say whether thatís a good or long-lasting engine, but at least theyíve taken some weight out.
As Scott suggests others may have had good experiences with a smaller engine. It then depends on whether you sail in similar conditions to them.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain Stratford & Milford, CT
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/04/2018 :  08:28:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bought Rob's Sailpro 6 and have never used it, because my Nissan 6 has been running so well that I have continued using it. The Nissan 6 is built by Tohatsu and is the same basic engine as the Sailpro 6, but the Sailpro has a slightly longer shaft, a high thrust prop and an alternator.

I use my Nissan 6 on my Cal 25, which displaces 4,000 lbs. By comparison, the Catalina 25 displaces 4150-4550 lbs, depending on the keel.

I have used my Nissan 6 for a couple 30 mile deliveries, motorsailing with the mainsail, I have motored to windward for an hour against Chesapeake Bay tidal currents and chop, and I have motored 3-4 times from St. Michaels to Annapolis. The engine pushes the boat to about 5 1/2 kts without current, and about 4 to 4 1/2 kts against Bay current. If you have to motor against current, you'll do best if you motorsail. By supplementing the engine power with some sail power, it helps power the boat through the chop. The 6 won't push the boat to hull speed, but, as a sailor, I don't expect to get anywhere fast.

One difference that bothers some people is the fact that the Tohatsu/Nissan/Merc 6 (same engine) is a single cylinder, and it's sound isn't as smooth sounding as a 2 cylinder. The single cylinder is the feature that minimizes the engine's weight. Adding a second cylinder greatly adds to the weight, but it also increases the engine's power. As you are aware, the low weight is a significant benefit, but the trade-off is a little less power, a little less speed and a sound that some people find less pleasant.

Personally, I love the engine and am well-satisfied with it's performance. The question for each of us is whether it meets your expectations.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("FahrvergnŁgen")
Past Commodore
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/04/2018 :  09:42:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve, Do you know why Rob sold it?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5164 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2018 :  10:02:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by islander

Steve, Do you know why Rob sold it?

He upgraded to an electric start motor because his fiance had a shoulder problem and couldn't pull-start it. I don't know if the Sailpro 6 is available with electric start, so he might have had to go to a 8 or 9, but he said, at the time that "I'm selling our current motor [Sailpro 6] which has served us very well."

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("FahrvergnŁgen")
Past Commodore
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1338 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2018 :  12:26:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FWIW -- my Tohatsu 9.8 25 inch shaft with electric start, etc., weighs 88 lbs. and moves the boat well i chop, tides and current. You may find lighter weight higher HP 4 stroke outboards that the Honda and Yamaha that seem to be heavier.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
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HerdOfTurtles
1st Mate

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USA
47 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2018 :  20:53:58  Show Profile  Visit HerdOfTurtles's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have a Tohatsu MFS6BS 6hp 4 stroke. Dunno what prop it has. Weighs 57 lbs.

The motor bracket I have is not a good situation as both hands have to be down by the motor when I lift it up so I can't really get any leverage. One hand on the motor itself and one hand on the release mechanism. If the motor weighed any more I would have a very hard time lifting it up on my own.

Anyway, I think the motor is great. It's very easy to start, pretty quiet, sips gas, and moves the boat adequately. I think it tops out around 5 or maybe 5.5 kts full throttle but 3/4 throttle is a steady 4.5 kts.

Personally, I don't think I would want any other motor. Maybe if I had a really nice motor bracket that made it easy to lift and an electric start 9.9 or 8 I could see that as an upgrade. But then again it's kind of a downgrade because it's just more liability of crap that can break and more expense doing maintenance for a very marginal benefit. Not to mention added stress on the transom.

If you've got strong tidal currents like up north then I'd go for the bigger motor, otherwise no way.

1978 Standard Rig
Fin Keel
L-Dinette
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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4135 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2018 :  13:19:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another cheaper alternative is to find a good used 2 stroke. Generally significantly lighter weight with as much power, they are still around in the used market.

Some of my buddies have them on their dinghies and a few sailors in my harbor use them on their boats. The downside is mixing oil and gas but many newer units took 40:1 and 50:1 ratios, so put out very little smoke.

I retired my old British Seagull 40 Plus since it provides only 2.5 HP and took a 10:1 mixture which was quite smoky.

If 2 stroke engines are still legal in your state it may be an option. Of course, you might be unwilling to use one because of eco concerns.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain Stratford & Milford, CT
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archimedes
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 11/05/2018 :  17:34:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the replies.

It's good to know that some are using a 6hp with reasonable results. That puts my mind at ease a bit.

If I can make 4kts even with some current I'll be satisfied.

I don't want to buy a larger outboard because I may be downsizing to a C22 in the not too distant future and the 6hp will be plenty for that boat. But if I can use the 6hp for the remaining time that I have the C25 (with reasonable results) that would be great.

With the old 9.9hp I had to use the boom vang as a block and tackle just to raise the outboard out of the water. My motor bracket doesn't offer nearly enough assistance.
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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/05/2018 :  18:51:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've got an 8HP 2-stroke Suzuki. It has oil injection so all I have to do is check the oil reservoir every 2 or 3 tanks of fuel and the rest is automatic.

If it smokes at all it's very, very little and I don't notice any smell. Then again I was raised on 2 strokes and that's what I'm used to so maybe to my brain it's the way an outboard is supposed to smell and I don't notice it! LOL


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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
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archimedes
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2018 :  06:32:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately, it's hard enough to find a used 4 stroke with a long shaft around here. Two strokes are like hen's teeth.
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archimedes
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 11/07/2018 :  06:00:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I forgot to ask, since I'll be buying new, would the 20" or 25" shaft be the way to go?
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/07/2018 :  06:01:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Definitely the 25"

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/07/2018 :  07:17:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iíll second Scott Islanderís vote for 25Ē long shaft. It depends on your engine mount, so if the bracket has greater range and if you donít get 2-3 foot waves, you may be able get away with a 20Ē. If the cost difference is minor, go long!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain Stratford & Milford, CT
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RichardG
Admiral

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974 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2018 :  16:45:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Tohatsu 6 hp with 20" shaft. Anything heavier than that is a deal breaker for me. A 25" shaft would be better, but it was more $ and weight, so I deal with it. Motor sailing definitely helps a lot in chop. I remember once bashing into the wind about 25 nm out to Santa Barbara Island. The engine cavitated occasionally, so I had to pay attention, but not too bad. When motor sailing in these conditions, it helps to have a flat, reefed main, and point just off the wind in order to balance the help from the main with the direction I wanted to go.



RichardG 81 FK/SR #2657
Terminal Island, CA
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RichardG
Admiral

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Response Posted - 11/07/2018 :  16:50:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I switched to a high-thrust prop a few years ago, and that seems to help a bit, both with propulsion and gas mileage.



RichardG 81 FK/SR #2657
Terminal Island, CA
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/08/2018 :  11:29:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


4 hp 20" shaft length ( a rebranded Toe-hot-sue)

Works great for an inland lake. Any kind of wave action and this would cavitate.. so 25 would be required for offshore.

I've never used this engine in any kind of current, but it seems to power well. I've used 6hp on my boat also. And 9.5.... they all seemed similar.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25 SR/FK
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alfreddiaz
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2018 :  22:57:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow. I was just about to post a question about this very same topic because I am considering going with a 6 hp for my Cat 25 SK. So here is what I am getting from the previous responses.

It seems to me that if you are just going to put in and out of harbor, 6 hp should be fine.

But what if you have to fight a strong current or blow? This summer with my 9.9 HP Yamaha, which is old and needs to be replaced, I struggled to get hit 4.5 knots when heading up river on the Columbia, which was probably flowing at 2.5 knots easily.

I hear there are some mean currents in parts of the Puget Sound. I would hate to be under power with a 6 hp.

So, my questions to those with 6 hp motors, have you had to use them against any significant blows or currents?

Also, I plan on getting the 25 inch shaft to help solve some cavitation problems that tend to occur with having a side mount outboard.

Great post. Great timing.


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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/11/2018 :  07:30:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A 4 cycle Tohatsu 6 or it's equivalent can push a 25' sailboat at about 5.5 kts. C25 hull speed is about 6.3 kts. As a practical matter, 6.3 kts is the most speed you can get on a C25 under outboard power. A 4 cycle 9.9 outboard will push the boat to just about hull speed. If you're motoring against a current, you can deduct the speed of the current from the boat's speed, and that's the speed made good towards your destination.

If you motorsail, you can probably increase your boat speed with a 6hp to about 6.1 kts. Adding sailpower to the engine's power increases boat speed. Also, when motoring to windward, every time a wave smacks the bow, the boat loses 1-2 kts of speed, depending on the size of the wave. Sailboats don't accelerate very fast, so, every time you lose speed, it takes a long time to gain it back. Motorsailing helps the boat power through those waves.

If I'm planning to make a long passage under power, like 25-30 miles, and, if I'm seeing 20-25 kt winds on the nose, I'll simply postpone the trip until the conditions abate, because I know the trip will be a long hard slog, if I can make it at all. I really don't think the difference between a 6 and 9.9 hp motor would change my decision to postpone the trip. Having a 9.9 hp motor wouldn't improve my speed much against those waves, but it would make it a much wetter ride, with more waves breaking over the bow with greater force.

Making a trip to windward in those conditions on a 40' 18,000 lb boat isn't a big deal, as compared to a 25' 4,000 lb boat. The essence of seamanship is in knowing when to go and when to stay.

However, if you're on a sailing venue where you frequently have 2+ kt currents, like the Columbia River, I think a motor that can drive the boat to hull speed, like a 9.9 would be the better choice. You'll probably need that extra power and boat speed more often than those of us who sail on bays and lakes.

Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("FahrvergnŁgen")
Past Commodore
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