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 Steaming Light uses lifelines as on/off switch		  New Topic  Reply to Topic
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Erik Cornelison
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USA
194 Posts
Initially Posted - 05/18/2020 :  15:55:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yup, you read that right.

This is year three of my Catalina 25 ownership. Year three was electrical work as planned. Year one was engine/critical components, year two was standing rigging & engine mounting, year three electrical work, some LED upgrades and trailer work.

I replaced the switch panel with the Catalina Direct replacement as the old panel was very corroded, new panel went in without any issues. Everything works.

My steaming light wouldn't work after the new panel install, it had power at the deck plug measuring with my fluke, the light bulb worked when it has 12v dc applied. Anchor light at top of mast worked when anchor switch set to on. (the steaming light is just about at the spreaders on the mast and is required to be on when under way with engine (steam) power for those who don't know which light I'm talking about).

So I upgraded the steaming light to a new LED unit as the old steaming light socket was original. New steaming light works fine in port, but flickered on a night test sail on 5/16/2020. It reminded me of my old 1966 VW Bug I had as a kid with dim/flickering headlights & a poor ground.

Then while underway the light went out completely. We switched on the anchor light. Later when I grabbed the lifeline, the steaming light popped back on. It's obviously grounded to the lifelines and railing. You can actually make the LED steaming light flicker to music with the lifelines...a unintended cool upgrade since I have teenagers who like music/light shows.

When we disconnect both lifelines, the steaming light is totally off. Not a real issue this light as I'll run a proper ground this fall and rewire the steaming light to separately turn on/off, and the deck-light to turn on/off separately too.

FYI the deck light totally ruins your night vision, it's far too bright but perfect for intended use at the marina or other needs. Right now both deck and steaming come on together which I knew would happen and will correct.

This fall I'll totally rewire the mast and run the VHF up there too.


My question is where did Catalina ground the boat originally and your thoughts on this goofy situation? I guess I should re-write the subject line to say the lifelines are casual on/off switch.


Erik
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 05/19/2020 :  07:00:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the electrical http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/4-2-4.gif The grounds run to a bus bar that is then connected to the neg. side of your battery. Nothing gets grounded to the lifelines. Having some sort of current running in your life lines might just make you a prime target for a lightning bolt.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


Edited by - islander on 05/19/2020 07:07:52
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Erik Cornelison
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USA
194 Posts
Response Posted - 05/19/2020 :  12:39:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Islander - thanks for the wiring diagram. Do you know what the "bow" light is in the 4 wire deck plug? Says it has a white wire.

I have anchor, steaming, front running lights. I don't have a separate bow light unless its been changed or removed.

Erik

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Here's the electrical http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/4-2-4.gif The grounds run to a bus bar that is then connected to the neg. side of your battery. Nothing gets grounded to the lifelines. Having some sort of current running in your life lines might just make you a prime target for a lightning bolt.
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts
Response Posted - 05/19/2020 :  13:26:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Erik,

In that 4 wire connector, the bow light is the streaming light, the deck light is a light that shines down on the foredeck. The anchor light is what it is of course. The three lamps share a common "ground" which is what they call the negative wire.

My boat had a 3 wire connector and I upgraded to a plug that would allow another wire for the combo steaming/deck fixture that you see a lot.

As you can tell, there really is no ground or chassis ground on the boat. All negative wires run back to a buss at the panel.

You've got something making a circuit to one of your pulpits it sounds like. Either a short or someone used the mast and/or pulpits as ground.

You'll have to get busy with your multimeter. I'd be curious what you are measuring between the lifeline pelican clip and the pushpit with your streaming light switched on and lifelines disconnected.

This could tell you which side of the circuit is being completed as well.
Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 05/19/2020 :  15:24:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Might be that someone has changed your panel. Bow and steaming are the same. I would prefer steaming but Catalina used bow. The original Catalina panel is the one on the right in the photo.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts
Response Posted - 05/20/2020 :  07:51:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thinking about this - I just realized the wire's follow along the port side, right next to the stanchion bases. I bet a wire has been pinched or frayed in the past from stanchion PM's, removal, etc and may be shorting to the stanchions.. I'll check and trace this weekend at the marina.

Erik
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 05/20/2020 :  09:28:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the '86 is like my '85, with a red-green running light on a bracket welded to the bow pulpit, the wires were run inside the pulpit and into the cabin from one of its bases. If you have an external wire there, I suspect it's a P.O. addition. And if the PO was messing with things, who knows where he might have connected any negative wires to run a common ground back to the panel, or if (OMG) he got cute and used the lifelines as part of that run. (Stainless isn't a great conductor to begin with.)

Interesting puzzle. But I doubt it's as Catalina wired it.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/20/2020 09:31:10
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/23/2020 :  17:10:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I’d chalk it up to a mistake that somehow miraculously worked (at least most of the time) versus anything that was planned for. Having installed lots of television and audio gear, you’d be absolutely amazed at the half-arsed wiring I’ve pulled out. Usually balled up in a rat’s nest!
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts
Response Posted - 05/26/2020 :  09:02:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Update - this Memorial Holiday weekend the life lines had no effect on the light. Wiggled, connected, etc,, nothing. Light was on steady.

I haven't opened or looked at the problem this weekend, I just wanted to sail.

I'm installing a Hummingbird chart plotter in the cabin next week, so we'll see what I find for the light and wiring then.
Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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