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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts
Initially Posted - 05/25/2020 :  09:01:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Aboard Passage, I replaced the original vacuum tube VHF with a Standard Horizon Eclipse DSC+ GX1000S radio in 2010. This one came with Digital Selective Calling instead of an analog Ch 70, scan channels, GPS NMEA interface and all the VHF channels instead of most of them.

It was a good value at the time, and the DSC actually works! I was fiddling with the menus one day, then my phone rang. The name on my phone said USCG Sector Long Island Sound, so I answered immediately.

It was the Officer on Watch. He asked me whether I was aboard my boat at that time. I said, yes - what’s up? He said that my MMSI number transmitted a test signal somehow and he was just checking... He assured me that it was not a false alarm MAYDAY call, just a test call. He had never seen one before so he thought he’d check in. I thanked him for letting me know. Nice to know that the new gizmo works.

In the past few weeks we’ve had some stormy weather and on Thursday I noticed that after I turned on the VHF, I adjusted the squelch knob just above the hash (static) level and put the radio on auto-scan.

It ran awhile and then I noticed that there was no chatter on the radio. I normally hear USCG advisories, anglers on 68, 69 and marinas on Chs 9&10. There was nothing at all.

I tweaked the squelch knob just below the squelch level and could then hear chatter on all channels.

I did a radio check on Ch9 and 24 and got a callback from two harbors away, about 15 miles. He said my signal was loud & clear 5 by 5. The BoatUS automated radio check sounded good.

But the radio is clearly malfunctioning. If I set the squelch off, I get hash plus all radio calls.
But if I set the squelch on, just above threshold, I get NO radio calls.

Very strange. Any suggestions?
I probably need a new radio, any recommendations? I also have a handheld as a backup.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 05/25/2020 :  14:00:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bruce: That radio that came in Passage was old and crude, but I seriously doubt it had tubes in it.

So your squelch is all on or all off? That and the spurious "test" transmission don't sound good, although apparently you're mostly functional (if you want to listen to the noise). Even a lightning strike 100+ yards away can put out a pulse that can damage things like that--friends lost all electronics in a nearby strike to the water.

I can't help on a choice... Last year I got a Simrad with DSC and AIS receive, to go with my new Simrad radar and GPS/MFD, at an amazing model close-out sale--Defender bought out Simrad's inventory--they're all gone now. So now I'll see submarine escorts on my GPS. (I nearly got into trouble last year when they hadn't broadcast their departure--black gunboat, flashing lights, bullhorn,... )
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/25/2020 14:03:48
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islander
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Response Posted - 05/25/2020 :  15:38:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would think like Dave and zero in on the squelch knob/pot. A little electrical contact cleaner might do the trick. Salty atmosphere never was very compatible with electronics
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


Edited by - islander on 05/25/2020 15:42:39
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Voyager
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5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/25/2020 :  15:44:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Woof! You have to really squint to see those Los Angeles-class fish before they come up to the surface. Living in “submarine country” can sometimes be exciting...

Yep - now I have a “digital squelch” now, either full on or full off. If lightning caused the problem, I was extremely fortunate as none of my other electronics were affected.

I saw an equivalent VHF at Defender for $110, plus a $40 mfr rebate. It accepts a GPS NMEA0142 input just like my current model.

I could go with an internal GPS model for another $40-50, but I’m already rigged for an external GPS.

I also downloaded a decent AIS receiver for my Android, so I don’t need one in the radio.

Just wondering whether it’s possible that potential corrosion in the antenna cable could cause this odd behavior? I’d hate to replace a perfectly good radio when all the time it’s really just a bad $20 piece of cable or a $10 connector...
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Voyager
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5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/25/2020 :  15:51:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scott, you might indeed be onto something there. I opened up the radio to check for any damage or crusty connectors, but nothing obvious. I’ll get a can of contact cleaner and give it a shot.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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bigelowp
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1736 Posts
Response Posted - 05/25/2020 :  18:33:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bruce:

The first place I would look is the antenna and connections. Over the years I have had to replace the antenna more than once and each year I check performance. In salt water weird things happen to connections and antennas. I bet your radio is sound.
Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
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islander
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3992 Posts
Response Posted - 05/26/2020 :  04:34:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ah, but if it is an antenna problem Bruce wouldn't have gotten a good radio check and with the squelch off he still wouldn't hear transmissions.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/26/2020 :  04:53:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Weak incoming signal. Take the radio to another location/antenna ( the store ) and have them hook it up.
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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Voyager
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5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/26/2020 :  13:30:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is a second antenna on the stern rail. It is not very good compared to the mast top antenna. I could try that to see if the curious squelch knob behavior is the same using a different antenna.

Can’t help wondering whether there’s some damage that the radio’s high power transmitter circuit might have caused to the sensitive receiver circuit because of a power overload caused by a bad connection with the antenna? All that transmitter power has to go somewhere...

I know that there are a few amateur radio operators among the Forum group. Does this make sense?
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 05/26/2020 :  21:17:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The antenna connection seems to be sound--good TX and RX.

On the subject of GPS-to-VHF integration for distress calling, I actually have a different take... I was on a boat off the southern California coast with acrid smoke from an obvious electrical problem pouring out of the companionway and cockpit locker. Our first move was to turn off all power. (Now no fixed VHF.) So now we're on a sailboat that might be on fire, 10 miles from port and 2-3 miles out with kelp beds between us and the beach. We contacted another boat via a handheld VHF and were safely escorted home...

I recently purchased a handheld VHF with built-in GPS and DSC (to replace an aging one). In my experience, when the $#!+ hits the fan, a handheld could be all I've got. (Mine even floats, and I keep it in a floating ditch bag.) I'm confident from experience that from anywhere on Long Island Sound (and probably 20 miles from our east coast) the USCG can receive from and transmit to a decent handheld radio. Their receivers are incredibly sensitive, and their transmission power is way above what we're allowed. The "line of sight" claim doesn't allow for some basics of wave physics--they propagate over land forms and even over the horizon, to a degree. I receive USCG transmissions from Sandy Hook, NJ, (way over the horizon) on my fixed radio in Mystic. I might not be able to talk to them from here, but their coastal network has us covered.

I consider my fixed VHF a nice convenience, but not my ultimate distress solution. Now my handheld can transmit my GPS coordinates in a distress call--whether the boat still has electronics or I'm still in it, or not.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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JB
Navigator

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110 Posts
Response Posted - 05/27/2020 :  12:34:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had the same radio in a previous boat and found the send send MMSI test function. There is a relay that is supposed to short the input to the receiver circuitry so that transmitting doesn't overload and damage it. I think that's feature common to all transceivers. Someone transmitting from very close, like the next slip, could deafen your receiver though.

I would debug by attempting to receive with known good coax and antenna.
1988 C25 Wing Keel Std Rig Tohatsu 9.9 Tiller Steering and 2003 C250 Wing Keel Std Rig Inboard Diesel Wheel Steering
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Derek Crawford
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3312 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2020 :  08:27:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not really on topic but a different "glitch". Sailing on Canyon Lake one day, listening to the barge traffic on the intercoastal canal on the Texas coast - 200 miles away!
Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/28/2020 :  19:23:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I had an opportunity to stop at the boat tonight. I learned a few new details that point to a defective unit.
1. I switched the radio over to the backup antenna cable. The radio behaved in the same way: good reception when the squelch was in the hash producing position and no signal in the noise reduction setting. When the signal came through in the hash setting, if it were close by, the sound was crystal clear. For more distant signals, the sound was normally less clear.
2. Also, the weather radio signal behaved exactly the same as ship to ship. Channels 2&3 came through fine below threshold, but they were nonexistent above the squelch threshold.
Next move, ordering on Defender’s Memorial Day sale.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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redeye
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Response Posted - 06/01/2020 :  07:08:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
keep using the radio you have now and get a handheld. There are times I really like having a handheld clipped to me.
Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
Edited by - redeye on 06/01/2020 07:10:39
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Voyager
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Response Posted - 06/01/2020 :  07:47:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ray, you hit the nail on the head.
I have a clip on waterproof handheld VHF radio that I use frequently, but it’s limited to 1, 2.5 and 5 W max.
When I need some real range, the fixed VHF runs at 25 W at the top of my mast.

According to physics, the horizon for my handheld transmitting from the cockpit at approx 8ft above sea level is about 8-10 nm. The range for the mast-mounted antenna is around 30 nm.

My next move is to test out the antenna cable, which means dropping the mast.

I have two sections and 4 connectors to check:
• The cable from the back of the radio through the cabin to the deck connector by the mast, (easy)
• The deck connector itself (easy) and
• The mast cable and masthead connector. (A pain)
I’ve already inspected the deck connector and cleaned out some oxide there but the cables were not perfect.

I’ve ohm metered the accessible portions of the circuit, but I need another tool like a VSWR meter to check the mast portion.

Meanwhile, it receives perfectly. Was monitoring 9, 13, 16, 22A, 24, 69 and 71 yesterday. Clear as a bell.
I’m still concerned about transmitting however ...
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Edited by - Voyager on 06/01/2020 07:52:01
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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 06/02/2020 :  05:57:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

...Meanwhile, it receives perfectly. Was monitoring 9, 13, 16, 22A, 24, 69 and 71 yesterday. Clear as a bell.
So you mean you no longer have the binary squelch problem? (That would prevent you from scanning those channels.) It would seem your connections and wires are pretty good--they're obviously the same for your transmissions as for receiving.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Voyager
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5231 Posts
Response Posted - 06/04/2020 :  18:54:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No. The radio was operating manually below the squelch threshold so I got hash until I received a signal. Once I got the signal, it generally came in clearly. To change the channels, I had to press the up/down arrows, so I could not use auto scan.

With the squelch above threshold, the radio would scan ok, however, it would not stop and play out any of the received transmissions.

Something was clearly malfunctioning in the radio.

I received my replacement radio this week, Standard Horizon Eclipse DSC+ model GX1400. l It was an easy installation, the power cable was identical, the auxiliary speaker was wired up the same way (I used an RCA plug and receptacle) and the GPS NMEA 0183 input connection was similar. The chassis fit into the existing mounting bracket and the microphone fit on the mic clip.

The menus operated a little differently and it required that I enter my MMSI ID number immediately upon turning it on. I set that up and programmed the soft keys for weather and preferred channels.
I still have not programmed in my scan channels.

I tried the receiver first. I flipped through all the channels but since it was not a weekend there was little voice traffic so I was not sure how well it’s working. I tried the mast top antenna first, then the stern rail antenna. Very little difference in performance.

I spent some time checking continuity between the radio antenna input and deck connector. I measured about 0.5 Ohms on the cable. I opened up the deck connector and cleaned the contacts on all 4 conductors. Again, very low Ohms, so I have a good connection down below at the base of the mast. I have no idea what the mast top connector looks like, but inspecting with field glasses, the cable appears intact and the black tape is still in place.

I have not been able to leave the dock, so I cannot test my transmitter with the Tow BoatUS automated radio check. This radio check is located about 10-12 NMEA away, so I need a clear line of sight to hear it. I did a voice ch09 radio check, and a fellow about 2 miles away said he received me loud and clear.

We’ll see in practice how this goes but the new radio seems to operate more normally.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Edited by - Voyager on 06/04/2020 19:00:05
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