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What kind of Battery would you buy C25

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Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/26/2020 : 08:10:07

Hi All, I hope everyone had a peaceful, healthy and solemn memorial day. My deepest gratitude to those who serve/d and those who love them. My new-to-me needs new batteries, there is room for two of them, but I want to get one really good one first to test all the lights ect. Then figure out the two-battery switch. The manual says my boat comes with a "marine grade 12 volt, deep cycle, 90 AMP battery". MY boat did not, and even if it did it would have likely been 40 years old. A look at west marine website seemed like they had too many choices, everything but exactly what the manual says. I think the batteries must have been improved or something since then. What would you buy if you were me and did not want to have to replace wiring ect. My fuse blocks are corroded but recognizable to I will replace those with these at the link, if it helps to know that the batter I get should work with these: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea-systems--st-blade-battery-terminal-mount-fuse-block-kit--16016206

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)

Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2020 : 08:58:25

I have the Group 27 gel batteries. Had two when I bought the boat, one died last year after nine years, the other still working fine with a date stamp of 2010. I did go to buy a new replacement battery for the dead battery, the dealer had a returned battery, so I gave that one a try. It was $100 vs $290. So far so good, but it's early in the year. I have a 25 watt solar panel to keep the battery charged as my marina doesn't have electricity in my small Colorado lake.
My fuses were also so corroded that my main panel wouldn't work, I replaced it with the Catalina Direct same panel except it has circuit breakers vs. fuses.

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2020 : 09:09:08

quote:
manual says my boat comes with a "marine grade 12 volt, deep cycle, 90 AMP battery". MY boat did not

That 90 amp deep cycle is a Group 27 https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--deep-cycle-flooded-marine-battery-90-amp-hours-group-27--15020324?recordNum=2 West Marine uses East Penn batteries and then re-brands them. They are excellent batteries. If you plan on eventually using 2 batteries then 2 group 27's should be fine. A word of caution, You should never mix an old battery with a new battery so you should decide if you are going to use just one or two batteries.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2020 : 12:23:14

quote:
Originally posted by Caribbean Soul

Hi All, I hope everyone had a peaceful, healthy and solemn memorial day. My deepest gratitude to those who serve/d and those who love them. My new-to-me needs new batteries, there is room for two of them, but I want to get one really good one first to test all the lights ect. Then figure out the two-battery switch. The manual says my boat comes with a "marine grade 12 volt, deep cycle, 90 AMP battery". MY boat did not, and even if it did it would have likely been 40 years old. A look at west marine website seemed like they had too many choices, everything but exactly what the manual says. I think the batteries must have been improved or something since then. What would you buy if you were me and did not want to have to replace wiring ect. My fuse blocks are corroded but recognizable to I will replace those with these at the link, if it helps to know that the batter I get should work with these: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea-systems--st-blade-battery-terminal-mount-fuse-block-kit--16016206

I've been using Walmart's Marine MAXX batteries for a long time. I can fit two of the Group 29 size in the battery compartment under the starboard settee. Each battery cost $100 and is rated for 115AH. They come with a two year warranty, but the present set is about five years old and still going strong.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2020 : 12:27:15

quote:
Originally posted by Caribbean Soul

What would you buy if you were me and did not want to have to replace wiring ect. My fuse blocks are corroded but recognizable to I will replace those with these at the link, if it helps to know that the batter I get should work with these: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea-systems--st-blade-battery-terminal-mount-fuse-block-kit--16016206

I've been using Walmart's Marine MAXX batteries. I can fit two of the Group 29 size in the battery compartment under the starboard settee. Each battery cost $100 and is rated for 115AH. They come with a two year warranty, but the present set is about five years old and still going strong. I've been happy with them.

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2020 : 19:26:06

West Marine offers several different types of batteries however I generally see their �hybrid� deep cycle/starting batteries.
To me, this is a contradiction in terms because each type of battery is designed differently.

Starting batteries have thin lead plates to enable lots of instantaneous current - to crank the starter for a short time at high Amps.

Deep cycle batteries on the other hand have thicker plates that generate less instantaneous current, but can deliver a moderate amount of current for a long-long time. They can be discharged and recharged many, many times without wearing out while starter batteries can degrade quickly if they undergo too many deep cycles. The thin plates tend to warp and short out with heavy use.

I�ve had good luck with Sears� Die Hard marine batteries and with WalMart. Today I have one group 27 with 90 Amp-Hours that provides me with about 5-10A for 5-10 hours for lights, audio, phone charger and an inverter for small AC appliances like TVs, PCs, etc. I don�t use any power-hungry appliances like toasters, microwaves, electric coffee pots, refrigerators or hair dryers.

I use a 30 Watt solar to recharge it or my 12A engine alternator. A second battery is good if you need more, It�s best to do a power budget for your boat looking at how much power you need over what time period to determine your power needs. Some folks purchase a Honda 1000W gas-powered generator if they need more power on a mooring.

Lots of options, but if you want to keep it simple, it�s pretty easy.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2020 : 19:31:04

These comments are once again really helpful. Very much appreciated. I dont need it for a starter so I think I'll go with two deep cycle group 27s. I'm starting to read the solar threads, but that is a project for another day. Thanks so much all!

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2020 : 19:51:47

Yes, solar is a whole nother matter. If I had two group 27s, I�d probably want 60 or 80W of power using a 7Amp voltage regulator. You can get a lot more complicated but this is a simple solution.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2020 : 21:40:59

So much has to do with your usage and situation. I haven't seen any discussion about standard lead-acid vs. Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) versus gel-cell... Lead-acid (car batteries, whether called "marine" or not) need attention--either regular charging (as cars do) or storage indoors in winter. AGMs can be abused much more--drawn down, left unattended, left over the winter... Gel-cells are similar--a less recent technology and more finicky about charging current (if your outboard has an alternator).

What are your charging options (motor, shore power, etc.)? How do you plan to use them (day sailing, overnight, weeks on end, high-powered sound system, microwave oven,...)?? Dual group-27s or group-29s may be way beyond what you need, or barely enough. We had a single group 24 charged only by our Honda outboard, but we didn't have a "Caribbean Soul".

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2020 : 04:33:47

Great questions. She will be docked at my house and can plug in. She will be daysailed (likely needing running lights for the evening ride home) while I improve, and will be expected to go on anchored shoreline overnights (with no shore power) and erie canal trips (maybe power, maybe not) while I gain skills in preparation (within two or three years) for a voyage from Ithaca NY to Mystic CT. And then who knows where! I imagine I'll want to run the interior lights from sunset to midnight, charge phones, laptops. I can probably expect to recharge the batteries every 7 days at the longest. I also am not clear - based on the manual - if I can recharge the batteries by plugging in the AC shore. Also, using AC shore, can I run the interior cabin lights? She is a gas starter.

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)

Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2020 : 04:37:15

Oops! Pressed submit too soon! Cooking for now is going to be butane unless shore powered. Winter the battery will be brought in.

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2020 : 06:14:35

[quoteI've been using Walmart's Marine MAXX batteries. I can fit two of the Group 29 size in the battery compartment under the starboard settee.][/quote]
Wow Seth, I looked into the Walmart's Marine MAXX 29. You get a lot of bang for the buck. They are made by Johnson Controls for Walymart and 115AH for $100. I would run out the door now if I needed a battery.https://www.walmart.com/ip/Everstart-Maxx-Lead-Acid-Marine-Battery-Group-29DC/49988415

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/27/2020 06:17:07

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2020 : 07:42:51

I got a good buy on a couple of Duracell group 24 deep cycles from Batteries Plus. These are West Penn, a quality brand as noted above.

From your needs I would say you definitely want deep cycle, not combination. I had one group 24 for years and recently upgraded to two when the old one died.

You need to install a good charger as well. Not a trickle charger but a good battery conditioner suited to the battery or batteries you install.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2020 : 08:47:24

Ya, the shore power circuit has nothing in common with the 12V circuits unless you install a charger that draws from one to the other. With shore power connected, your standard lights will still be running off the batteries (unless you add a fixture you can plug in.) I'll leave the details on chargers to others here.

If your outboard has electric start, then it has an alternator, and charges the battery when it's running. If there's no starter but a battery cable, it still has an alternator. That won't necessarily take care of your needs--typically they put out only about 20-30 watts--but our single Group 24 took care of our very modest lighting needs and electric starting just by being charged while running to and from the marina--we did nothing else to it all season.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2020 : 11:03:11

Caribbean Soul....just to emphasize what has already been said....if you are on a budget like most of us, you need to prioritize your expenditures. To help you with regard your electrical demands, it is valuable to take stock of your sailing expectations and your electrical needs. Only you can determine these but if your needs are modest, for example you do mostly day sailing one to a few days a week and an occasional over night stay, then a single deep cycle Group 27 battery (90 Ah) could easily serve your needs if you manage it properly. To this end, take an inventory of your electrical needs....electric start motor (?), running/anchor lights, cabin lights, VHF, stereo etc. You'll need an estimate of the amperage each consumes and an estimate of the time each will be in use (Amps x time = Amphours). Many here can help or even offer a MS Excel template if any questions. If largely day sailing, your demands will likely prove relatively modest but having an inventory in hand will help you decide whether to put your money for example into updating to LED fixtures etc. or into a second battery. There is much experience here on the forum and information in the archives on managing your electrical system. To complete your electrical budget you also need to estimate how to replace the Amphours used, i.e. how are you going to recharge your battery(ies). Do you have access to shore power and a smart charger or will you rely on solar? What you cannot due is allow your battery to become severely discharged or to stay even moderately discharged for any length of time. You should early on invest in a modest multi-meter (available on-line or home building supply) and learn how to check voltage, e.g. of your battery. Many here can speak more profoundly than I, but a new, fully-charged battery that has been sitting (not connected to a charger) for 24 hrs or so should have a voltage between 12.7-12.9V. A nominally discharged battery (50% discharged) will have a voltage of about 12.2 V. Note the range between fully charged and operationally discharged is quite small and as the battery ages its ability to hold a charge decreases, particularly if the battery is allowed to sit for any length at less than full charge. Also note, that at summer temperatures, the battery will self discharge slowly but measurably even with no external load on the system. So you see it is essential to manage your system to ensure the battery remains charged as best possible. How to ensure this again depends on your expected use and energy (and fiscal) budget. Knowing your electrical demands will help you estimate how long you must motor (assuming your motor's alternator is wired to recharge your battery) to recover from a typical days use. If your weekly demands are modest, a simple and inexpensive 5 Watt solar panel (no regulator needed) will keep one battery fully charged and over a few days time (sunny days) fully recharge a moderately discharged battery. We have kept our boats on a mooring for over 15 years and this has worked well for our sailing needs. We simply monitored the battery voltage regularly and, if needed for example after an extended weekend, we used the motor to help recharge the battery. In general, however, our electrical demands were modest and some items (stereo, iPad, BadElf, ...) are/can be powered independently of the boat system, i.e. we could take them home to recharge if needed.

Bottom line....before investing in two batteries, take a close look at your needs and expectations. In addition, I suspect you'll find that replacing older lighting with LED fixtures will notably lesson your demands. As for managing your battery(ies), check the Tech section on this forum and ask questions. On an earlier post you shared a pic which suggested that your motor (starter and/or alternator) was not connected to the battery at that time. Have you/are you going to addressed that?

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2020 : 18:44:00

A handy and inexpensive battery charge measurement device is available at many auto stores and boating shops. It�s either a cigarette-lighter plug-in digital meter or an LED-based VU meter type that can be connected directly to the electrical panel or cigarette-lighter outlet.
This one has a digital readout. Digital Meter
Here�s one with indicator lamps. LED Meter

For more information that you never wanted to know about boat batteries, there�s always Don Casey�s book �Sailboat Electrics, Simplified�. See this preview here.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 05/27/2020 18:52:41

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2020 : 04:22:25

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--group-27-dual-purpose-agm-battery-92-amp-hours--15020241

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

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