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Winterizing Outboard Engine

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/18/2015 : 16:25:17

I learned something from an engine mechanic this year that might be worth passing along. He said Sta Bil is of dubious value for long term storage of a small engine, and suggested that ethanol free gasoline be run in the engine before long term storage. I was surprised to learn that ethanol free gas can be purchased from small airports and also from a few other sources. 87 Octane avgas has no ethanol, and can be found at any small airport. You can find other local sources for ethanol free gasoline at the following website. Scroll down to the bottom of the page to find locations in each state. http://pure-gas.org/

I bought 2 gallons, ran the tank dry on my Cal 25, and put a gallon in the tank before storing it. The other gallon will go in my Harley before I store it. I paid about $3.60 a gallon for it, which is much cheaper than the cost of having the carburetor cleaned.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2015 : 20:37:39

There's a co-op south of me that has ethanol-free gas for about $3.40 a gallon. I picked up about 9 gallons last time I was there and I topped up the tank on SL each time we came in during crab season. I should have a little better than 50% ethanol free in the tank now with a bit of room for more since there was still some room after I emptied the last tank into it. I'll get some more in the next few weeks so I've got plenty for my generator for the winter (which means I'll never use it...), plus I want to get back down to the boat to completely top off the tank for the winter.

I've still been adding marine Sta-Bil to the gas, as well as Star-Tron (recommended by the local Tohatsu repair shop). I've had good luck using them so far, and haven't had to clean my carb for two seasons now.

I use the same website (there's also a mobile app to find them).

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

dalelargent
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2015 : 20:59:35

I suppose there are a few variables, but I thought I would report this.

I have a 9.9 Honda, fyi...

I exclusively use ethanol free fuel (local station sells it) and always run stabil in the fuel. It is then stored in the winter months after fogging the air intake, etc.

I have owned that motor, which is quite old now, for four years and have yet to have a single hiccup with it, and have never cleaned the carb.

1989 c25 WK/TR #5838
1998 Catalina 36 mkii
1983 Vagabond 14

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3367 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2015 : 03:39:51

Well, I do not store my outboard since my boat is in the slip, year-round. I wind up sailing during the winter months at least once every week or two. There is usually a day here and there that turns out to make sailing doable. But generally around mid-January thru February, things get dicey and we could have a long lasting cold that not only keeps me from sailing but the river may ice over. I have a 2006 9.9 Honda and what I do throughout the year, is add either Stabil or Startron to each tank full of gas. Agree that for long term storage, going with the ethanol-free gas sounds like the right approach since they say that gas with ethanol is more prone to moisture/water. But the other thing you sometimes have to be concerned with is if the gas lines clog up if the gas within outboard fuel line and/or engine internals forms gum/varnish. I believe Stabil and Startron do help minimize the formation of gum/varnish but probably since I wind up starting my outboard fairly periodic, even during the winter months, this more than anything is why my outboard never seems to have any issues. The longest that I have not used my outboard was perhaps this past year when the Potomac River was frozen over for about a month or so but then again, I have one of those above products always in the gas anyway.

One of the practices I stopped doing was running out the gas out of the outboard during the Spring/Summer and fall months. I did that because I thought it would minimize condensation and/or gum/varnish forming in the outboard fuel line. But in discussing this in previous postings, eons ago, on this Forum, the thought was that when you use the outboard regularly, there is no need to run the gas out. So, I stopped doing that. But during the winter months when I may not start the outboard for a week or two, I do run the gas out of the outboard, once that is done, then I keep the outboard in a vertical raised position and I momentarily start the outboard in the raised position to fling off any water that may have collected on the water impeller. Maintaining my outboard in the above way, using it thru the winter with 10% ethanol gas, my Honda has run flawlessly......and the auto choke is a non-issue summer or winter.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/20/2015 03:45:03

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/20/2015 : 19:10:35

For those of us with 4-cycle outboards, the solution is simple. Just dump the gas into your car every couple of months and start with fresh gas. Over the winter I leave my empty tank with the vent open so the last traces evaporate out, then I inspect and remove any dirt specs in the spring.

There is a science to degradation of ethanol fuel, and it's easy to prevent. The e-fuel is hygroscopic, so will abosorb moisture from the air. Hydrolysis of the mix turns it acidic, which can damage engine parts. If it absorbs enough water it phase separates, which is even more corrosive, and it can freeze in winter and cause expansion damage.

The degradation is easily prevented. If you have a portable tank, seal it (i.e., close the vent cap) so it's not breathing fresh moist air every time is heats and cools. That will prevent moisture absorption. Sta-bil offers another layer of protection since it inhibits hydrolysis. But given enough oxygen it will lose its effectiveness. So sealing your tank and adding Sta-bil is effective. But even with that, I'd still dump the gas in my car every couple of months.

It's almost a two hour drive to get ethanol free gas from where I live, so that's just not worth the trouble. But the measures I take make it unnecessary to do that.

This is an easy problem to control for outboards with portable tanks. Other gas motors with fixed tanks, permanently open vents, and large headspace are much more difficult to control, and Sta-bil alone might not be enough.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/21/2015 16:05:00

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2015 : 15:03:27

I usually remove the last of my gasoline end of season and add a cup of white gas, Coleman fuel. Engine loves it - purrs like a kitten! - then it runs dry. My problem is the impeller freezing first night on the hard!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2015 : 06:41:49

If you don't have aviation gas or ethanol free gas available a good alternative is TruFuel. It is ethanol free, Contains cleaners and fuel stabilizers. One can should be enough to run the engine out at the end of a season for storage and it can be bought just about anywhere. http://www.trufuel50.com/product-info/4-cycle/

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

JohnP
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Response Posted - 10/27/2015 : 08:39:14

It is nice to know there are several practical ways to keep our outboards in good shape when winterized or when used in a winter with many freeze-thaws.

I have a 12 year old Honda 9.9 that I previously brought home and winterized by fogging the plugs.

For the last 4 years I kept the motor on the boat throughout the winter, and I have taken the advice from some other outboard motor websites as well as the Stihl company that makes my chainsaw. This is simply to eliminate ethanol-gasoline from the system between each use or when storing for winter non-use. I detach the fuel line, run the engine in the up-vertical position on the motor mount until it stalls. Over these 2 or 3 minutes, I run water into the engine from a garden hose attached to the flush port to wash out salt from the cooling system. In the 3 warm seasons in Maryland I keep the outboard tilted between uses. In the winter I store it vertically and while it is hot after the last use I pull the starter cord (with no key) a few times to get the remaining fresh water out of the water pump. On that last day of sailing, I open the carburetor drain screw under the carb and catch a teaspoon of gas that had been in the carburetor bowl on a paper towel held against the drain port. On warm days in the winter the engine starts just fine.

In the late winter or early spring each year the engine starts on the first or second pull of the starter cord. This last winter it snowed 10 times around here. After that the Honda started on the first pull!

Bottom line for me is: No gas in the fuel system, and no water in the cooling system over the winter.

This gasoline removal was recommended in the owners manual by Stihl for their chainsaws, too. I keep the gas tank full in my mower in the winter, but it has electric start and is a pretty big 25 hp engine. Wet gas is awful in small motors, and gasoline "varnish" is bad in carburetors.

I am happy with my results.

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2015 : 09:11:21

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

I usually remove the last of my gasoline end of season and add a cup of white gas, Coleman fuel. Engine loves it - purrs like a kitten!

But it isn't gasoline, nor is "white gas." It's essentially naptha. From Wikipedia:

Though Coleman fuel has an octane rating of 50 to 55 and a flammability similar to gasoline, it has none of the additives found in modern gasoline and cannot be used as a substitute for gasoline, kerosene or diesel fuel in modern engines.[citation needed] Its high combustion temperature and lack of octane boosting additives like tetraethyllead will destroy engine valves[citation needed], and its low octane rating would produce knocking.

50 isn't 87. And absent lead or anything else to lubricate the valves, it would seem you're running some risk.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/27/2015 09:13:45

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2015 : 12:12:27

I tend to agree with Dave, These motors are not multi fuel engines. If Coleman fuel is basically Naptha then I found this about Naptha,

quote:
The main purpose of naphtha is as a solvent, which means it's used to dissolve other substances

I wonder if the "other substances" are anything rubber like hoses,O-rings etc. I do what JohnP does but I don't bother with the fogging. Fogging engines are for long term storage,Usually over a year. After running the engine dry I also remove the drain screw from the carb bowl to get the last of the gas out. I then shoot some carb cleaner in the hole to rinse out any sediment that might be in the bowl. Another tip is to drain the fuel line and pump bulb by depressing the silver ball on one end and the pin on the other. The bulb and line contain quite a bit of gas that will go bad over the winter. Come spring and you go to start the engine the last thing you want is to squirt bad fuel into the carb. Finally I put a piece of plastic wrap over the air intake with a rubber band to keep damp outside air from entering the cylinders.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 10/27/2015 12:35:19

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2015 : 18:11:59

Hmmmm. That's troubling indeed. I just got the boat to my winter quarters - she's on the dock and tomorrow I plan to run her dry and remove the rudder and bring it back to my garage to avoid it freezing and splitting. I guess I'll get some additives like Mystery Oil and some Stabil

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2015 : 18:28:02

I just checked out Tru Fuel, which is recommended by Scott (Islander). It looks like a good, ethanol free gasoline that contains additives designed for long term storage. It is made in different versions for 2 cycle and 4 cycle engines. It costs about $6.00 for a quart, but you don't need much for a single engine. It's sold by Ace Hardware stores, True Value Hardware stores, Lowes, and Home Depot. If I didn't have a local ethanol free gasoline seller, I'd certainly try it. It looks like a good product for winter storage.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2015 : 09:59:54

It seems kinda amazing to me that Coleman fuel is simply naphtha (MSDS confirms this), but I can buy a gallon of Coleman fuel for less than a gallon of naphtha and depending on whose store you browse for 1/4 the price of canned naphtha.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2015 : 10:36:40

quote:
Originally posted by delliottg

...I can buy a gallon of Coleman fuel for less than a gallon of naphtha and depending on whose store you browse for 1/4 the price of canned naphtha.

"Naptha" is a very generic term for a variety of distillates--some more volatile than others, and some perhaps more highly refined (such as for dry-cleaning versus burning in lanterns or thinning paint). What none of it apparently has is the octane or engine additives of gasoline.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2015 : 11:07:50

Hehe, call the diesel fuel "Nafta", so probably not the best one for your outboard

Dalpol Phobos 21, 2013, Sole Mio, hull #27, current adventures - We sail Phobos 21

PO of Catalina C25, 1978, High Anxiety, hull #701, SR, FK, L-dinette, inboard diesel Volvo Penta MD2010C w/saildrive - more info

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 11/01/2015 : 11:12:14

Well, fortunately I'm fairly set for white gas, a neighbor gave me three brand new gallon cans of it a while back (don't recall the brand) and I already had a couple of Coleman brand gallon cans as well as a partial. That would keep my two lanterns, heaters, and stoves going for quite some time if it came down to it.

We get fairly frequent power outages during the winters here, and it's nice to have the light from the lanterns when we do. I don't think I've ever used the heaters (I've got two of the old style white gas heaters), or the stoves during a power outage. We've never had our gas go out, so we can just cook on our range no problem, and we have a gas flash water heater, so we have hot water too. If it gets really cold, we just light a fire in our wood stove and it'll eventually drive you out of the living room, by that time the rest of the house is pretty toasty.

OK, coming back on topic, I've read about people running white gas into their outboards to winterize them, but as you pointed out Dave, it doesn't have the octane and additives of from-the-pump gas, and I can't imagine the solvent's particularly good for the hoses and other dissolvable bits and pieces in the fuel train. I plan to run ethanol-free gas directly out of a secondary tank (the original 3 gallon tank that came with the Tohatsu), then run the engine out of gas for the winter. I'll continue to top up the main tank with ethanol-free gas until it's always got it in there, and stop using non-ethanol-free gas into the future. I just wish there were a station closer to me to make it easier to get it.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2015 : 18:10:44

Funny - I use Coleman fuel for my Camp Stove (boil water for tea and instant coffee) and a Coleman lantern. I tried using regular gas one time and it clogged up my stove - I had to clean it out with solvent before it would work again.
Today, I emptied my fuel tank and disconnected the fuel hose. Then I added some Stabil, started the engine and let it run at idle for about 15-20 minutes to clear out the line. Afterwards I emptied the water/gas separator of about 10oz of "slush" which gets added tithe lawnmower. I took out the spark plugs and sprayed out the cylinders with fogging oil and sealed it all up. Maybe some clear Saran Wrap over the air intake would be a good idea but I'm hesitant since moisture always seems to collect on the wrong side of the cello. I usually just keep the outboard in my garage over the winter.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2015 : 20:40:11

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

...I tried using regular gas one time and it clogged up my stove - I had to clean it out with solvent before it would work again...

The higher octane of gasoline means it doesn't ignite as rapidly when atomized by the carb jets or injectors and then compressed by the piston. In liquid form, it doesn't burn at all--just the vapors coming off it. So the ignition was not occurring as gasoline was designed for. If you've ever watched a fire with liquid gasoline, initially the vapors explode, and then the rest makes copious amounts of BLACK smoke as the liquid slowly vaporizes. There's your clog (and your soot).

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/01/2015 20:44:53

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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Response Posted - 11/02/2015 : 07:51:24

Good discussion here! I have much experience with both 2 and 4 stroke engines since I raced/wrenched motorcycles for many years and used outboards for even longer. Additives do seem to work in the alcohol added fuels but I never leave it in through the winter. I run them dry and open up the carb drain. Remove the gas hose connection and thats all I do for mine. Works great! I do the same for my generators. Chief

COMPASS ROSE C250WK
Tall Mast, Wing keel
PORT CHIEF, Bodega Bay Ca.
IE,EE,FCC lic #1890

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3754 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2015 : 08:19:17

Same here Chief. Run the motor dry, empty the tanks and quit. Practical Sailor just updated their fuel stabilizer evaluation. Seafoam was the budget buy, and Hammonds Biobor Ethanol Buster was the best overall.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/26/2015 : 10:04:48

I just started winterizing (and today's 60� tomorrow's 65�) and I pulled my engine to put it in the garage. Tank and bowl are empty so I expect to spray it with some carburetor cleaner when I get into it. Pull the spark plugs, wire brush them and spray the cylinders with fogging oil.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2015 : 10:46:40

Bruce: Are you sure carb cleaner is meant to stay in the carb long-term?

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/26/2015 10:47:07

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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Response Posted - 12/03/2015 : 08:46:00

Dave posta a good question with regard to carb cleaner. My experience says to not leave cleaner in the tank or carb. I say this because it is not good on plastics for extended periods of time. If a fogging of oil is deemed necessary, just add about one half ounce of 2 stroke oil to your last tank of gas and it will do a great job of oil coating the inner combustion surfaces for you. It can even be used regularly for lubing of a 4 strokes valves with this leadless gas. I have a friend who was one of the top motorcycle tuners in the nation and he thinks all engines could benefit from burning a small quantity of 2 stroke oil on a regular basis. My best, Chief

COMPASS ROSE C250WK
Tall Mast, Wing keel
PORT CHIEF, Bodega Bay Ca.
IE,EE,FCC lic #1890

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2015 : 14:52:12

quote:
It can even be used regularly for lubing of a 4 strokes valves with this leadless gas. I have a friend who was one of the top motorcycle tuners in the nation and he thinks all engines could benefit from burning a small quantity of 2 stroke oil on a regular basis. My best, Chief

I agree Chief, A little extra upper cylinder lube can't hurt. Many use Marvel Mystery Oil as a fogging oil or as you suggest a little in the gas. Dave, I don't think that Bruce meant that he was going to leave Carb cleaner in the carb but rather was just going to clean out the carb. Since Carb cleaner is basically Acetone you wouldn't want to leave it inside the carb or carb bowl over the winter.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2015 : 20:37:09

quote:
Originally posted by islander

...Dave, I don't think that Bruce meant that he was going to leave Carb cleaner in the carb but rather was just going to clean out the carb. Since Carb cleaner is basically Acetone you wouldn't want to leave it inside the carb or carb bowl over the winter.

His post seemed to indicate he was going to spray it and leave it. I suspected it's some kind of aggressive solvent that's meant to be washed out by gasoline, not left in there for the winter.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

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