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Pop-top "hood latch pins"

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odonnellryanc
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108 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/11/2017 : 09:29:56

Hey all,

I've really been "spamming" the forum lately with topics!

Been thinking lately about the pop-top for the boat and the safety therein. It is an awesome feature that along with the canvas makes for some great comfort in the smaller boat, especially during hotter days.

However, the hardware is certainly lacking. While I never sail with the pop-top up (only opening it when at anchor on a nice day or at the dock) those two small thumb-bolts I have that keep it secure (along with its somewhat significant weight) are ... concerning.

I haven't ever read about anyone having any problems with the pop-top, but I was thinking about a simple solution that has already been used in the car world: https://i.imgur.com/VwEG5lN.jpg

Basically, I'd put these inside the cabin to keep the deck as clear as possible.

What do you guys think? Ideally I'd like to make these long enough, or rig up two cables for each, to be able to secure them with the pop-top in the up position as well. That way we can open it on slightly windy days and not worry about a gust ripping it off :)

What good marine-grade hardware can I use for this? I'm thinking about eye-straps like this: https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?name=ronstan-eye-strap-saddle&path=-1|118|2303373|2303376&id=638964

bolted from the top - so the bolt can lay as flat as possible on the deck.

For wire, well, I guess I'd have to rig something up that is appropriate.

I figure I could possibly use these eye-straps for hanging other things as appropriate in the cabin, so win-win (maybe).

Edit: for wire I'll probably just use some dyneema I have. Just as strong, easier to work with, easily replaceable, lets me use nice hardware I already have :)

Edited by - odonnellryanc on 12/11/2017 09:32:31

trbagpiper
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 09:55:14

I put the in the Pop Top Power Lift kit (E1812). Aside from helping with the weight, once up, it exerts a forward pressure on the mast so you really don't have to worry about it dropping on your head. I feel it was money well spent.

Jim Ventimiglia
Toms River Yacht Club
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 12:55:46

quote:
Originally posted by odonnellryanc

That way we can open it on slightly windy days and not worry about a gust ripping it off :)

Most of us initially had doubts as to the adequacy of the pop top hatch dogs, but realistically, there is zero chance of a pop top being ripped off on a "slightly windy day." It's conceivable that it might happen at around 40-50 kts, if the pop top isn't secured, but !) a C25 should be in it's slip when the wind is blowing that hard and 2) if you're caught out in anywhere near that much wind, the pop top should be down and all hatches dogged down securely. When beating to windward in about 18 kts and above, you'll start taking spray over the bow. If the pop top is open, even slightly, that spray will get inside the boat.

Those two dogs look flimsy, but they're adequate for their designed purpose. They'll hold the top in place until the conditions are such that the survival of the boat is in doubt. Realistically, the boat should be taken to shelter before the conditions ever reach that stage.

There's a simple device on the mast that is supposed to keep the pop top up when it's raised, and IMO, it's not reliable, so I think it would be good to rig a better device to keep it from falling when it's open., I just tied it up with a piece of line.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 12/11/2017 12:57:11

WesAllen
Navigator

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222 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 13:59:49

I agree with Steve. I have the hook on the mast but also have seen it move down and almost unhook. I now keep 1 of those ratchet straps in the boat, it keeps it very secure.

Wes

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 14:35:23

Hello,

CD offers the replacement dogs in the correct size. When I get around to it, my plan is to simply add another pair up at the forward edge. No need to over think it and spend more $ and time. But hey, to each his own. best of luck with whatever you decide to do. And I agree with the others, the pop top should never be up while sailing.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 15:06:18

I'm a little confused, Do you worry about keeping it up or down. Later boats have 3 dogs to lock it down. One on each side and one mid way on the forward edge. CD sells them if you want to add more but in all the years of being a member here I've never heard anybody say their top flew open.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 17:35:07

My '89 has four dogs, 2 on each side. Never had any worry about it opening and like several of the others, I run a line around the front of the mast back to the two front legs of the pop-top to make sure it doesn't close unexpectedly.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2017 : 18:07:32

Four dogs would certainly ease most people's minds vis-a-vis a catastrophe like a capsize or a breaking 12 ft wave. Chances of both are miniscule but possible, so never say never. So for those who never use the poptop, epoxy it closed for good. Or through-bolt it if you're worried about resale value. I don't use my poptop frequently but often enough. I may decide to through bolt it and add wingnuts instead of dogs.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2017 : 07:46:46

quote:
There's a simple device on the mast that is supposed to keep the pop top up when it's raised, and IMO, it's not reliable, so I think it would be good to rig a better device to keep it from falling when it's open., I just tied it up with a piece of line.

I had to look hard for this one but I remembered these that Jebrant had on his boat. I believe they hinged from the strut bolt. I believe he made them to hold the top open about 3/4 of the way so he didn't have to remove his vang. You could make them to hold it fully up too.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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1484 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2017 : 13:11:45

Unnecessary.

Jerry

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2017 : 15:13:53

Jerry, Sorry you find it "Unnecessary". I'm not trying to force anything down anybody's throat just showing a different approach from another member. I thought that was what this site was about. Share information and ideas.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2017 : 16:52:11

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

quote:
Originally posted by odonnellryanc

That way we can open it on slightly windy days and not worry about a gust ripping it off :)

Most of us initially had doubts as to the adequacy of the pop top hatch dogs, but realistically, there is zero chance of a pop top being ripped off on a "slightly windy day." It's conceivable that it might happen at around 40-50 kts, if the pop top isn't secured, but !) a C25 should be in it's slip when the wind is blowing that hard and 2) if you're caught out in anywhere near that much wind, the pop top should be down and all hatches dogged down securely. When beating to windward in about 18 kts and above, you'll start taking spray over the bow. If the pop top is open, even slightly, that spray will get inside the boat.

Those two dogs look flimsy, but they're adequate for their designed purpose. They'll hold the top in place until the conditions are such that the survival of the boat is in doubt. Realistically, the boat should be taken to shelter before the conditions ever reach that stage.

There's a simple device on the mast that is supposed to keep the pop top up when it's raised, and IMO, it's not reliable, so I think it would be good to rig a better device to keep it from falling when it's open., I just tied it up with a piece of line.

I agree with Steve. I sail in the Sound and have been out beating to get home where the waves are rattling my teeth and everything in and on the boat. The pop top has never been an issue.
BUT...
On the mooring I once had the pop top slam down when the launch went by a bit too fast. Since then I have taken the "belt & suspenders" approach.
I use the "J" hook on the mast AND tie a line from the pop top legs around the mast.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

Enchantment II
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 07:58:36

I agree the slide lock on the pop-top can slide down and the top will crash down. I made a "crutch" for my pop-top. It is a simple device made from PVC. I used a 2x2 furniture foot cap, and glued the PVC pipe to the cup. I cut a notch in the PXC pipe so that it would fit the edge of the roof. I slide the PVC until it locks into the roof, kind of wedge the PVC between the roof top and the deck. It holds the roof up and gives added security. I even used it when the mast was down to hold up the pop-top. it is simple and secure.

Joseph Henderson
82-CAT 25 TR SK

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 14:13:36

I make use of the slider on the mast to hold the pop top up, but a PO also installed a wing nut on top of the knurled round nut that holds the slider in place. My pop top has never fallen down, even when rockin and rollin all night at anchor in a breeze.

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Good Times
1st Mate

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45 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 17:18:50

I agree, the 4 pop top dogs are fine if secured properly (tight);

in a most extreme outing during the infamous 2015 Dauphin Island Regatta with sustained winds of 75 plus and 6-8ft waves over close to an hour, we had many issues but the pop top was not one of them and it did not move 'an inch'.

As a minor mod. I have put velcro pieces on the twist knob and the pop top to keep them from falling down and hooking onto the latches just when you want to raise the top.

Andy Kohler

C25 #6012 TR WK
traditional layout

16ft Hobie Cat
23.5 Hunter

odonnellryanc
Navigator

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108 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 17:32:30

I just have the 2 dogs, so I think instead of using line to make some fasteners I'll spend the same money on CD and get 2 more :)

We have the mast track stop but yes we do tie a safety line when it is up.

I may buy the lift kit too, after a day of rougher sailing when you may be sore it's a pain to push up at times.

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 18:42:02

I like all of these ideas. Especially the one Scott shared. I think I will make a pair of those struts. Wood or aluminum? We will see.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

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