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Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Heavy/Excess Weight in 250's ???

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Carl in LA
Captain

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USA
284 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/12/2017 : 21:45:15

Does anybody have experience with heavy-ish loaded 250's?

Can these boats handle a bit of loading as in another 500 pounds or so of cruising gear like house batteries, solar panels, dinghy motor, Engel cooler, microwave, ect...

What happens when these smaller boats get heavy?

Always the best,

Carl

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

DavidCrosby
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 14:26:35

Take a look at the following post
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30692

On this trip, we had the following:

Two big guys
Three Coolers
Food for a week
Drinks for a week
Clothes for a week
Built in water tank (13 gallons) Full
Several extra gallons of water
29 Gallons of Gasoline
Two group 27 Batteries
Full Propane Cylinder
BBQ Grill Hanging off Stern Rail
Extra Porta Potti Base
Second Danforth Anchor
Two Solar Panels
Two Laptop Computers

The boat handled just fine. For the most part it was a motor boat ride, but we did sail where/when we could.

David Crosby "Small World"
'02 C250 WK #614

DavidCrosby
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 14:33:55

I was thinking you may be wondering about how the boat handles heavily loaded in waves. The Alton, Il to Kentucky Lake trip was flat water.

I also did a week long vacation in Michigan. On this trip, we had four boats traveling as a group. Mid Week, the weather forecast was no wind on Tuesday and about 15 knots on Thursday with 4 - 5 foot waves on Lake Michigan. We decided to do a guy's trip out to South Manitou, Island (42 miles away). The wives were not interested. So, I moved my wife on to a friends boat and took on three Adult guys and a 10 year old boy. We motored the entire way to South Manitou on Tuesday. Spent the night at the island and then sailed back on Wednesday. It became a fairly wild ride and we were down to just the main with two reefs. The boat handled great. I had no concerns in regards to the weight we had on board.

David Crosby "Small World"
'02 C250 WK #614

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 15:02:34

I race my Cal 25 with a crew of 3-5 adults. 500 lbs of movable ballast (crew) improves the boat's performance in both light and heavy air. IMO, 500 lbs. of inert ballast (storage) isn't particularly helpful, but it doesn't hurt performance much, especially if it's stowed low and securely.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Carl in LA
Captain

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USA
284 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 18:56:07

Appreciate the link... I had not explored that area of the forum. So happy to see you embarking on an epic journey on the great loop. The loop is on my bucket list.

Also appreciate confidence boost that the little 250's canbe filled up and still perform.

Best,

quote:
Originally posted by DavidCrosby

Take a look at the following post
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30692

On this trip, we had the following:

Two big guys
Three Coolers
Food for a week
Drinks for a week
Clothes for a week
Built in water tank (13 gallons) Full
Several extra gallons of water
29 Gallons of Gasoline
Two group 27 Batteries
Full Propane Cylinder
BBQ Grill Hanging off Stern Rail
Extra Porta Potti Base
Second Danforth Anchor
Two Solar Panels
Two Laptop Computers

The boat handled just fine. For the most part it was a motor boat ride, but we did sail where/when we could.

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

Carl in LA
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
284 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 19:00:20

Hi Steve...

All the crap I'm about to load won't be movable so no benefit like rail-meat for me.

A 67(?) Cal 25 was my first sailboat. Loved it.

Best,

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

I race my Cal 25 with a crew of 3-5 adults. 500 lbs of movable ballast (crew) improves the boat's performance in both light and heavy air. IMO, 500 lbs. of inert ballast (storage) isn't particularly helpful, but it doesn't hurt performance much, especially if it's stowed low and securely.

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2017 : 21:25:38

Once again, it's at least somewhat useful to know about your boat--a signature in your profile can tell us whether you're a WK or a WB each time you post. They are different boats.

That said, Arlyn Stewart, a past and long-time participant here, cruised a water ballast C-250 on the great lakes--specifically Lake Huron from Michigan to Ontario. Presumably he had a fair amount of "stuff" aboard for crossing Huron and beyond... He also suggested here that the WB model had an advantage in the significant seas of L. Huron due to the for-and-aft distribution of its ballast, which he believed reduced the pitching of the boat. That water is, of course fixed ballast (unless you don't completely fill the tank, in which case it becomes "negative ballast" that tries to capsize you.)

Search for posts by "Arlyn Stewart" in our archives on his Great Lakes cruises--he might be the foremost C-250 cruiser among our participants.

However, the WK model is generally considered to be "stiffer" than the WB overall--relating to its ability to stand up to the wind. Fixed ballast (stuff in the boat) won't affect that much, but I'd say Arlyn proves that you can load a C-250 for a significant cruise, and get where you want to go successfully.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Carl in LA
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
284 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2018 : 06:36:06

Well...

Most of my major mods are in place and the weight did have an effect... a big-ish list to port. Hopefully several lead ingots or a few bags of landscape rock placed starboard can bring her back on center...

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2018 : 10:24:39

Funny but that looks like it's listing to starboard, not port. Your port side is against the dock.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 06/02/2018 10:28:43

Carl in LA
Captain

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USA
284 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2018 : 16:51:10

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Funny but that looks like it's listing to starboard, not port. Your port side is against the dock.

Nothing too funny - I'm just bass-ackwards... I should have studied this photo.

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2018 : 15:38:34

Carl,

I know you have put a lot of work on your boat.
The C250WK is known to be stern heavy.
You might consider moving both of your Group-27 batteries forward of the fresh water tank.
It's just a thought.

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

Carl in LA
Captain

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USA
284 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2018 : 16:38:19

Noted Russ...

I dropped a sack of stone into the port settee hold (while on the trailer) - I'll see the results tomorrow when the boat is launched.

Thought about locating the batteries up front but the relative inaccessability due to having to remove the fore seatback and whatever is on the cushions then the cushions to get to the hold was not an attractive choice as I purchased flooded batteries. Easier to check electrolyte level in the settee holds.

Also ordered a triangular 15-gallon bladder water tank for the forepeak. Depending on the results it may be time for another sack of rock up front.

How much more weight can the 250 handle and still not have weird performance behavior?

I'm probably over thinking the situation anyway - all the weight added is probably less than the weight of four big fellas onboard which I assume the 250 can handle without breaking a sweat.

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2018 : 16:45:47

Carl,

Funny, I also have the tri-shaped water blatter forward.
Another project is access to the forward storage.
On my boat the plywood cover was one piece.
This means removing everything to get to anything.
Since the cushions are divided left/right, then you can cut the plywood to match the cushions.
That way you only have to move one-side for access.

That kinda helps.
Also, keep you charger and switches on starboard, just move the batteries.
How often do you have to get to the batteries anyway.

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

Carl in LA
Captain

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USA
284 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2018 : 17:51:19

Russ... I keep nothing in the forward hold due to the inaccessability.

The boat required two 60-lb bags of gravel to bring her back on keel.

Crazy - but happy for all of the improvements that caused the list and perhaps someday in the future finding some affordable lead ingots that will replace the gravel... probably a lot of air space in those gravel bags.

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

WK 727
1st Mate

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USA
72 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2018 : 21:12:27

Carl, I have added 500 pounds of lead ballast in the bilge below the floor and couldn't be happier with the results. The boat rides on its lines and now doesn't get pushed around by a cross breeze. I also have two batteries in the forward hold. The stern is at water level and the mast compression post in the cabin is perfectly vertical. The ablative paint on the stern is above the waterline if you look closely.

Some put 300 pounds in the forward hold which is forward of where I placed the ballast to accomplish the same static position. I preferred to place more weight closer to the CG. It works for me.

Thanks, John

Regards, John
Westlawn Institute graduate
Yacht Design and Naval Architecture
04 Catalina 250 WK
Standard rig w/wheel steering
Yanmar 9hp diesel

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2018 : 22:21:32

John,

The Yanmar diesel is pretty rare.
It would be good if you could create a separate thread and post some pictures.
I wonder how much that engine weighs?

Thanks, Russ

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

Carl in LA
Captain

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USA
284 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2018 : 07:09:49

I wonder if Catalina company is in possession of any design synopsys that has a dialogue from the navel architect that designed the 250 series with their design goals...

Acknowledging that adding weight to a newly sold boat must be a fundamental design consideration... how much weight did the designer anticipate being added to the 250 and what design considerations were made with that.

In John's case below - he's adding maybe 8% of the boat weight as additional dead-load... is that pushing it? Perhaps John's observation that the boat floats on its lines is a clue to the amount of load carrying capacity designed into the boat... add weight until the design waterline touches the water and you've found the design load carrying capacity???

John... thanks so much for sharing your experience.

Looks like I have a few more chores to do until I bring the lady down to her lines...

Best,

Carl

quote:
Originally posted by WK 727

Carl, I have added 500 pounds of lead ballast in the bilge below the floor and couldn't be happier with the results. The boat rides on its lines and now doesn't get pushed around by a cross breeze. I also have two batteries in the forward hold. The stern is at water level and the mast compression post in the cabin is perfectly vertical. The ablative paint on the stern is above the waterline if you look closely.

Some put 300 pounds in the forward hold which is forward of where I placed the ballast to accomplish the same static position. I preferred to place more weight closer to the CG. It works for me.

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2018 : 09:35:28

Carl,

You know you could contact Catalina Yachts about your questions.
In fact, there an event hosted by Catalina Yachts near your home port.

Here's a link to the topic on the General forum.

Catalina West National Rendezvous 2018
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31120

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

Carl in LA
Captain

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USA
284 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2018 : 06:04:16

Thanks Russ...

The Catalina West National Rendezvous 2018 is on my calendar.

Best,

Carl

Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.