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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

New Jib

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Wye Knot
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/03/2018 : 05:13:11

I recently purchased a 2001 Catalina 250 Wing Keel which came with a Main and 135 Genoa. I plan to sail on the Chester River and Chesapeake. I could use a recommendation for a new standard jib; where to buy it, Dacron weight, etc. The boat has a furling system. Thank you.
Wye Knot

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
833 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2018 : 17:31:02

Welcome to the forum.

Here's a couple of ideas.
First, Catalina Direct is a good place to start your research.
They started as a Catalina Dealer then turned to aftermarket parts. They are not owned by Catalina Yachts, but have a working relationship with them.
I've purchased many items from them and they are a good source.
Catalina Direct: www.catalinadirect.com

Catalina Direct is a reseller for Ullman Sails.
Here's a link to the C250 Headsail page:
https://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/category/358/catalina-250-headsls.cfm
There should be enough information there to get started.

Next, the C250WK was built with either a "Standard Rig" or a "Tall Rig".
You most likely have the standard, but please check your measurements.

Catalina Yachts offered on the C250 a 110% jib, and a 135% jib as an upgrade.
Ullman also offers a 150% jib, but that was not a factory option.

The choice of headsail is up to you. You might try your current 135% to see how you like it.
You could also buy the 110% and keep the 135% as a backup. It's a little tricky to change the headsail on the furler at the dock.
It's the kind of thing you change at the beginning of the season and just keep it furled.

Russ Johnson
2005 C250WB Hull 793

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2018 : 18:12:56

If you'd like to try out a 110, this one is still available:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30379

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

RPLieser
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2018 : 21:24:53

I just completed a year with the Catalina Direct (Ullman) 110% Jib on my C250WB, CD# E9006. I included a Sunbrella panel for overall sail protection. I will say the Sunbrella was a bit stiff initially, however after several outings and many furls/unfurls, I am completely satisfied and the fit is perfect.
As an aside, CD puts their sails up at a discount each Fall, then places a large order with Ullman, with the sails delivered in Feb/Mar.

Patrick Lieser

C250WK #973
Knot My Fault III
Avila Beach, CA

(PO of C250WB #312)

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2018 : 03:12:20

I sail on the upper Potomac River. I have a tall rig main and a 150 Genoa. The 150 Genoa is probably overkill but there are plenty of days that I do use it fully or mostly fully unfurled. But I also have a Cat 25 versus a 250. Actually, in very light winds, the fully unfurled 150 is too heavy with a Sunbrella cover along the edge to get it to pull over to the other side when tacking. On light wind days, I will sometimes furl it a bit to make it easier for tacking.

Given you have a 135 furling rig sail, I don't really see much reason to go to the expense for a standard or 110 jib. If the breeze is really blowing, you could just furl up the 135 a bit. If you are into racing or want the most efficient sail for wind conditions, well then maybe go for bying a jib. In my instance, even with a 150, there has never been a day sailing that I wished I had a new jib in place of my 150 Genoa.

In regards to Dacron weight, etc. Actually, you are one of the few that has ever asked that question....most just ask for a sail/sailmaker recommendation and then make their decision on that. But you are absolutely right in knowing what you are buying and if it will meet your purpose. Afterall, you are buying sailcloth and not all sailcloth is the same , even if Dacron. Dacron comes in different weave densities and different weights. It is actually the eweave density that is most important since a low density weave can make up the difference by a thicker/heavier resin coating. It is the weave density that is most important if you want to keep stretching of the sail to a minimum. if you mostly sail in light winds or sail infrequently, then weve density, etc is not so important. The fact is that Dacron sails last a real long time, that is, before they start shredding, etc. But if the sails are used a lot or in moderate and sometimes heavier wind conditions, Dacron sails can stretch in a relatively short time, like in 4 years or so and that is when they get into that blown out condition making it hard to tack close to the wind. Once again, if sailing close to the wind as lcose as you can get is not so important, then the weave density is not so important.

The best place to get an understanding of how weave density has an affect on sail properties and your purchase, I would recommend going to MACK Sails website. This mfr operates out of Florida but I mention them mostly since their website is just chock full of info on understanding the difference between different density grades of Dacron. Another good site is Challenge Sailcoth Mfr's website. Challenge is one of the largest sailcloth producers in the country and they make no less than 4 grades of Dacron.

So, here is the thing - You get recommendations to buy sails from various sailmakers but no one mentions anything about the Dacron weave or grade. The surprising thing is the names of some of these different grades. For example, Challenge sells a Performance Grade. This grade Dacron is probably fine and many probably have this rade and love their sail. But this grade is actually their 3rd lowest grade ! I foget the names of the other grade but believe on the lower end is High Modulus which may actually be above the Performance grade. Then there is High Intensity (or something like that) - That is a low stretch grade and that is what my sails were made of by Quantum out of Annapolis. Then the highest grade from Challenge, beiieve it is called Marblehead. The two top grades sold by Challenge are the low stretch, high density weave sails made with low stretch stitching to match the weave fabic low stretch properties. Marblehead is really expensive. The difference between some of the grades is very deceiving because you can actually get a low stretch, high density weave sail matl that has about the same weight as say the Performance grade. How is that possible if one has more weave matl ? That is because the lower weave product may have a higher resin coating and that is why it is as heavy or heavier than the low stretch Dacron sail.

But most of this discussion has one big factor that may be the deciding factor and that is cost. The lower stretch Dacron sail matls are going to cost more, perhaps 25% or more above the cost of the less expensive Dacron weave matls.

What seems to be the case after many years on this Forum is just like with outboards, everyone (95% or so) seem to be happy with whatever outboard or sails they bought. (However, there was one sailmaker/distributor, not sail cloth mfr, that was not recommended - You can check the Forum's archives for that info.)
So, if you sail infrequently or oftentimes in light breezes, or not so picky on sail matl, or the cost is something you want to keep to a minimum as a high priority or just want a sail that many have bought and seem happy with, then maybe just go with recommendations and skip the research. Chances are you will be satisfied with the sail you purchase. But if you are curious about how sails compare in weight, density, etc and that may weigh in on your decision-making, then check out Mack Sails and Challenge websites to check out the Dacron grade differences and also take a look at their stretch versus wind/force curves if you really want to get into this

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 04/04/2018 03:49:15

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.