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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Torque for Swing Keel Hanger bolts.

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mroettersr
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USA
148 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/14/2018 : 18:59:00

I am replacing the keel hanger bolts and would like to correctly torque the bolts. I called Catalina Direct and they informed me there is no factory spec for torque setting. Is anyone aware of the proper torque for these four bolts? This is a swing keel model used in fresh water. I replaced the bolts about 15 years ago and can't remember if I had torque settings or not at the time.

Mike

Mike Roetter
'83 C25 #3568 SK/SR
Marblehead on Lake Erie

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2018 : 04:52:23

Looks like 21 ft-lbs.

When you use the search function, click the "Archived Post" box and you will get a lot more hits.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=29881

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

JamesBird
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2018 : 05:07:15

Mike,
if those bolts haven't been touched for 15 years, the threads may have seized and you may have difficulty removing them. Be very careful you don't break them off.

If they are hard to move, put some heat on them.

Jim

Jim
Danvers, MA
79 Cat25/SR/SK/(1185)

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2018 : 12:13:32

I got curious about this myself, as I will be reworking and rehanging my keel within a few months. So, I looked in the Machinery's Handbook and found an equation and a table of values for various grade steel bolts. They did not include stainless steel, but a number of online sources seem to put 18-8 stainless (the grade that seems to be used in most fasteners) at close to grade 5 carbon steel. Using those figures from the table in the equation give a recommend wrench torque around 18 ft-lbs for 5/16" bolts. This is "...a rough idea of the torque necessary to properly tension a bolt..." and it is for unlubricated fasteners.

Any time you use SS connectors into SS (bolts or machine screws into nuts or into threaded holes) USE A LUBRICANT! Stainless is notorious for galling: it doesn't always happen, so some people believe it's an unwarranted fear, but even on this forum there have been confirmations of sad experiences. I use Tef-Gel, although some recommend Lanocote. Even light oil will help when the connector goes in, although it might not help when it's time to remove it (fears of properly torqued lube'd connectors working loose have never been demonstrated to my knowledge). In any case, Machinery's Handbook recommends reducing the wrench torque by 10% for lube'd connectors.

All this indicates that the answer to your question is probably around 16 ft-lbs. This seems low to me, but it suggests that the amount of force intuitively needed is more than is actually necessary. Just for a quick reality check, I happen to have a service manual for my Tohatsu outboard motor handy, and it lists "standard torque" for M8x1.25 bolts (comparable to the 5/16" keel hanger bolts) as 8 - 11 lb-ft, although they recommend as much as 20 - 22 lb-ft for the cylinder head bolts (into threaded holes in the aluminum block). Seems like over-tightening the keel hanger bolts a bit (lube'd, of course) might not hurt.

Also, I would agree with Jim about using caution in removing them. I'd be inclined to use an impact wrench rather than simple torque, as the pounding could help break down any corrosion inside the threads. I'd be wary of applying heat in that location, surrounded by plastic; the "blue wrench" could cause more harm than good.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

mroettersr
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148 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2018 : 18:39:21

Thanks for the advice. 18 ft.lbs. seems a little light but I'll know more by the feel when I install them.

Between my former C22 and this boat, I've done two keel boat installations and I know to be very careful. Fortunately, I sail in fresh water so, hopefully, I won't have seized bolts. On my C22, some DPO used a mild steel bolt which had to be carefully drilled and chiseled out which took at least 8 hours on my back under the boat.(An easy out wouldn't work as the bolt was really corroded and seized.) I have a healthy respect for taking care on removing keel boats. That DPO probably still has ringing ears.

Mike

Mike Roetter
'83 C25 #3568 SK/SR
Marblehead on Lake Erie

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1889 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2018 : 15:02:16

I think the Catalina 25 swing keel hanger bolts are 3/8-NC. I just did a Catalina 22, and those were 5/16-NC. I apply polysulfide sealant to both lubricate the swing keel bolt threads and prevent loosening.

� Leon Sisson

Lee Panza
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465 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2018 : 22:47:38

quote:
Originally posted by Leon Sisson

I think the Catalina 25 swing keel hanger bolts are 3/8-NC...

Interesting: the page from the Catalina 25 Parts Catalog (available from this Association Website in the Manuals and Brochures section) indicates the bolts are 3/8" while another drawing, also apparently from Catalina, indicates 5/16". This other shop drawing is among a set that I guess someone had posted at some time in the past, and I saved them. They were faxed from Catalina Yachts on Oct. 14, '99. This one is titled "Keel Hanger Bolt Repair" and it indicates both C-22 and C-25 were using 5/16" bolts. I'm wondering if somewhere during the model run this was changed and the C-25 switched to 3/8".

Using 3/8" in the Machinery's Handbook formula raises the recommended torque to about 31 ft-lbs, or about 28 with lubrication (I'm surprised how much the value changed).

But I'm still wondering if the early models used 5/16" bolts.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

odonnellryanc
Navigator

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108 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2018 : 05:56:09

I just tightened mine to about 30 ft-lbs per recommendation I read online.

I can tell you this summer if they fail and my boat sinks!

mroettersr
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148 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2018 : 22:06:23

I torqued the bolts to 22 ft-lbs which felt about right. The bolts were 5/16" and Catalina Direct supplied blue lock-tight thread sealer.

Thanks for all the input.

Mike

Mike Roetter
'83 C25 #3568 SK/SR
Marblehead on Lake Erie

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