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 Rope Clutch installation		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Initially Posted - 05/15/2018 :  05:54:30  Show Profile
I want to install a 2 and 3 rope clutch on the C250. I cannot find instructions anywhere. should I use a backing plate? Most boats I have seen dont have them....


any ideas?

vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/15/2018 :  15:10:07  Show Profile
https://www.spinlock.co.uk/uploads/files/082016/57a9a2c02921107926d39863/original/XAS_20Access.pdf?1521729716
They dont mention backing plate wiht the 2 clutches i bought today
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 05/15/2018 :  15:23:55  Show Profile
The clutches on my Cal 25 are only backed by flat washers. The same should be more than sufficient for the C 250 coach roof, which is robust.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/15/2018 17:07:44
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 05/16/2018 :  06:03:18  Show Profile
Just washers with Ny-lock nuts topped of with Cap/acorn nuts to protect your scalp.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/16/2018 :  19:39:17  Show Profile
Thank you!
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

The clutches on my Cal 25 are only backed by flat washers. The same should be more than sufficient for the C 250 coach roof, which is robust.
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/16/2018 :  20:56:40  Show Profile
OMG, i have almost the same setup with the Garmin 380 or whatever it is which swings into the companionway. the swivel knob is frozen. I am going to replace that thing with an i50 mounted outside so we can use it in inclement weather and not have the companionway open...

So yes, it must be the standard way the clutches are installed: Drill the holes, coat the 1/4" x20 screws with 3m 4000 adhesive, screw into 1/4" x20 barrel nuts so they don't take some skin off if you happen to brush your head across them.... but that's all there is as far as installation.
quote:
Originally posted by islander

Just washers with Ny-lock nuts topped of with Cap/acorn nuts to protect your scalp.
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/17/2018 :  07:53:07  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by vdotmatrix

OMG, i have almost the same setup with the Garmin 380 or whatever it is which swings into the companionway. the swivel knob is frozen. I am going to replace that thing with an i50 mounted outside so we can use it in inclement weather and not have the companionway open...

So yes, it must be the standard way the clutches are installed: Drill the holes, coat the 1/4" x20 screws with 3m 4000 adhesive, screw into 1/4" x20 barrel nuts so they don't take some skin off if you happen to brush your head across them.... but that's all there is as far as installation.
quote:
Originally posted by islander

Just washers with Ny-lock nuts topped of with Cap/acorn nuts to protect your scalp.


https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/KTgMJrJEOdiJbeyvbopNOsF5zmwlyuePSlhvdyIYMLg
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/17/2018 :  11:32:52  Show Profile
Will everyone agree most lines coming to the clutch are no bigger the 5/16"?
The single Spinlocks now are the 0408 which handle up to 5/16" but I bought the more expensive 0612 which handles 6-12mm....a little overkill????
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 05/17/2018 :  20:59:55  Show Profile
vdotmatrix: The question is what size lines do you expect to use. The clutch size indicates the range of rope sizes it is designed to grip securely. A clutch that's too large will not secure the line. Basically, the line sizes are your choice, and a common size for halyards and other control lines on 25' boats is 5/16" (8 mm). Sheets might be a little larger, such as 3/8", for handling, but those won't be going to rope clutches.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/17/2018 21:21:09
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/17/2018 :  21:42:31  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Stinkpotter

vdotmatrix: The question is what size lines do you expect to use. The clutch size indicates the range of rope sizes it is designed to grip securely. A clutch that's too large will not secure the line. Basically, the line sizes are your choice, and a common size for halyards and other control lines on 25' boats is 5/16" (8 mm). Sheets might be a little larger, such as 3/8", for handling, but those won't be going to rope clutches.
thank you...i some times get conflicting specs from catalina and was trying to nail down a common line size commonly in use in the world. Currently i have two single spinlock 0408 max line is 5/16”... i was going to remove them altogether and replace them with a double and a triple 0612 which i already bought...but i think these are overkill at 6-12mm. Besides the singles are still current .The 5/16” is 9.5mm max. I was going leave those in place, and simply exchange for the 0408 and mount doubles next to the singles. So, 3 on each side for main, jig and spinaker halyards, furling line, jiffy and maybe cunningham....i will save $150 going with the 8-10mm clutches. One of the singles needs a rebuild kit. Sound good?
Edited by - vdotmatrix on 05/17/2018 21:54:26
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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts
Response Posted - 05/18/2018 :  03:42:17  Show Profile
Line sizes are in the manual. Halyards and reefing lines are speced at 5/16" Dacron.
Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)
Edited by - TakeFive on 05/18/2018 03:44:24
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/18/2018 :  12:02:09  Show Profile
YES, that's what I found....thank you...I nearly died the other day replacing my topping lift with 40 ft of line and was 2 feet short.....
quote:
Originally posted by TakeFive

Line sizes are in the manual. Halyards and reefing lines are speced at 5/16" Dacron.
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Carl in LA
Captain

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USA
284 Posts
Response Posted - 05/19/2018 :  13:43:09  Show Profile
I did the same as Islander and Steve... although I did not use the large fender washers - just regular size that metch the bolt and nut.
Catalina 250 - Pretty Good Boat
Edited by - Carl in LA on 05/19/2018 13:44:02
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/19/2018 :  20:42:27  Show Profile
thank you for indulging me. when placing a double 0408 spinlock next to an existing single 0408 spinlock, do i want to leave any kind of space between them? I suppose if I had to service a clutch I would remove the mounting screws and come straight up with it, to rebuild it on the bench and not necessarily in place.
quote:
Originally posted by Carl in LA

I did the same as Islander and Steve... although I did not use the large fender washers - just regular size that metch the bolt and nut.
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/20/2018 :  04:50:35  Show Profile
Vdotmatrix, what did you finally wind up doing with your topping lift that was too short?
I just did the math as a hypotenuse of the mast & boom making it about 34 feet.
Before I bought Passage, Dave “Stinkpotter” originally added a set of 3:1 block and tackle to the end of the topping lift. It provides between 2 to 4 ft of length adjustment at the bottom which is connected to the aft end of the boom.
That might just be the extra length you need.
And I t provides some mechanical advantage too.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/20/2018 :  05:03:01  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Vdotmatrix, what did you finally wind up doing with your topping lift that was too short?
I just did the math as a hypotenuse of the mast & boom making it about 34 feet.
Before I bought Passage, Dave “Stinkpotter” originally added a set of 3:1 block and tackle to the end of the topping lift. It provides between 2 to 4 ft of length adjustment at the bottom which is connected to the aft end of the boom.
That might just be the extra length you need.
And I t provides some mechanical advantage too.
well, i had my friend leave me up there while he found about 50ftof line, i cut off excess. He hauled it up to me , i attached it but i suffered the effects of suspension trauma and nearly blacked out at the top of the mast and it was a tense situation. Catalina said 35 would be more than enough, but i got 40 feet and that was just short.
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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/22/2018 :  05:45:37  Show Profile
yeah and although your math looks good on paper, in practice, you have to account for the line going around the sheave(s) at the boom end(s), and exiting the midpoint of the boom with a little extra to secure it around a cleat or tie a knot below pinch cleat...easily add 10 feet to your number, which I think is what Catalina did. I think they were thinking in terms of a hypotenuse length wire that you'd adjust at the end of the boom; many configurations to accomplish this task. I try and keep everything stock using original Catalina design whenever possible..
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Vdotmatrix, what did you finally wind up doing with your topping lift that was too short?
I just did the math as a hypotenuse of the mast & boom making it about 34 feet.
Before I bought Passage, Dave �Stinkpotter� originally added a set of 3:1 block and tackle to the end of the topping lift. It provides between 2 to 4 ft of length adjustment at the bottom which is connected to the aft end of the boom.
That might just be the extra length you need.
And I t provides some mechanical advantage too.
Edited by - vdotmatrix on 05/22/2018 05:48:32
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 05/22/2018 :  06:30:12  Show Profile
Whenever possible, I try to measure the exact length I need. I either measure the old line that I'm replacing, or I run up a messenger line, and then measure the messenger line.

A line that's too long clutters the already-too-cluttered cockpit, gets in the way and wastes the cost of the line which will never be used. A line that's too short doesn't do the job.

A topping lift that's too short can be salvaged by redesigning the topping lift or by splicing an extra length to it.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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vdotmatrix
Navigator

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USA
139 Posts
Response Posted - 05/22/2018 :  06:50:40  Show Profile
How efficient of you!!! I only had to snip off a few feet and everything is nice and tidy. Extra length is used to secure the tiller. btw, the existing TL was spliced with 2 bowlines which broke a a while back.... Rope clutch.........
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

Whenever possible, I try to measure the exact length I need. I either measure the old line that I'm replacing, or I run up a messenger line, and then measure the messenger line.

A line that's too long clutters the already-too-cluttered cockpit, gets in the way and wastes the cost of the line which will never be used. A line that's too short doesn't do the job.

A topping lift that's too short can be salvaged by redesigning the topping lift or by splicing an extra length to it.
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