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Enchantment II
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/30/2018 : 13:32:34

HI All, Happy and Healthy New Year. Good Sailing!
I am shopping for a new outboard. I am looking at a new Toshiba 9.9, Suzuki 9.9, all with an alternator and electric start, long shaft. Any experience with these models, pros and cons. Your opinions are always appreciated.

Joseph Henderson
82-CAT 25 TR SK

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2018 : 14:50:07

We have discussed this previously, of course. Here's a link to a good recent discussion that will surely give you food for thought.

When you mentioned a Toshiba 9.9, did you mean a Tohatsu 9.9? Google couldn't find an outboard made by Toshiba.
http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31309&SearchTerms=outboard

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 12/30/2018 15:02:44

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2018 : 15:17:38

I have to check my records but I bought a Tohatsu 9.8hp 4 stroke at least 3 seasons ago. Due to the weight I upgraded my motor mount from Catalina Direct and had a "Star Board" backing plate installed.
It starts and runs well with more than enough power for our boats.
The alternator keeps my two batteries topped off, I tend to pull start it.
It is heavy. The new motor mount lifts it well but putting it into the tilt position, I don't like dragging the motor while sailing or on the mooring, is a chore.
I'm not a member any more but I was when I bought it from Out Board Motors that used to give members a 10% discount. The company sent it straight to my marina. Not sure if the Assoc. has kept up that discount.

*Sorry I initially typed 9.9 and it's actually 9.8hp.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

Edited by - Peregrine on 12/30/2018 21:12:23

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2018 : 15:45:38

I should add that I'm very happy with a Nissan 6 hp, which is made for Nissan by Tohatsu. I use it on a Cal 25 on the Chesapeake Bay. The Tohatsu 6 only weighs 59 lbs, as compared to 95 lbs for the Tohatsu 9.9. That weight difference means you don't have to upgrade your motor mount to handle the extra weight. Also, it's a huge benefit when you take the motor off to service or at season's end, or to trailer somewhere. The initial cost is also less.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2018 : 17:00:54

I think you mean Tohatsu. Why go with the 9.9 when you can save some $$ by going with the Tohatsu 9.8. It has Electric start, 25" shaft, 92.6 lbs, 12V 80W 6A Alternator. I bought one in April and am very pleased. Model # Tohatsu 9.8 Hp MFS9.8BEFUL. I got it from online outboards but for some reason they don't list it anymore not to say they don't have it. Plenty of others have it so shop around if you want. A 6hp might fit your needs if your motoring is in protected waters or short distances without any weather issues to deal with. A good safe range IMO is 8hp up to 9.9. Definitely you will want the extra long shaft (25") in whatever you pick.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 12/30/2018 17:03:42

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1736 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2018 : 19:23:23

I have a Tohatsu 9.8 25 inch shaft, electric start and am very hnappyafter 11 seasons.�while I do not use the engine often, it always starts and runs well -- very dependable. I chose the engine so to keep the weight (89 lbs.) as low as possible while having a 4-stroke. And, yes, I upgraded my engine mount -- but more as it was old vs. weight issues. I understand the newer engines weigh more, so I would finely get a new engine mount.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2018 : 07:18:38

Hello All,

My boat came with a Suzuki 9.9 4 stroke with a long shaft. (20") ? I sail in ocean coastal waters and can tell you that when motoring in moderate wave conditions the prop will at times cavitate. You definitely want the extra long 25" shaft for ocean or great lakes use. Other than that, the Suzuki has served me well during the 4 years that I've had it. I sail year round as I live in So.Cal. I tried once to tilt it and never managed to get the rod moved to the new position, so I just never bother.
I would recommend looking into a power tilt model. My one complaint about the Suzuki: The linkage that connects the shifting rod to the shifting lever is made of plastic and over time in the sun, it broke when I tried to put it in gear. I was lucky in that it happened when trying to leave the slip rather than out on the water. Lesson learned about one more spare part that needs to be carried. I bought three more. When it comes time to buy a replacement, I plan on buying the Tohatsu. Best of luck with your choice.BTW, Nissan, Mercury and I believe at least two others are actually made by Tohatsu and just rebranded. I think that only applies to models up to 9.9 hp.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3992 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2018 : 08:00:20

Tohatsu makes the Mercury/Mariner motors 30hp or less and all the Nissan motors. Identical motors that are just re-branded. The Suzuki 9.9 has EFI fuel injection. A big plus that would eliminate carb issues that small motors have but they don't seem to have a model that is extra long shaft, electric start and tiller steering. They do have one with those features but it has power tilt adding to the cost and weight. Suzuki has a 3yr warranty. Tohatsu has a 5yr warranty.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2018 : 10:13:16

Just a point of clarification....I agree with Scott that Tohatsu makes the power heads for Mercury and Nissan but there can be significant differences in models. When we replaced our 1989 two-stroke three years ago I focused on Mercury for a few reasons. 1) Most local dealers carry parts and service Mercury. The nearest Tohatsu dealer here on Lake Champlain was over 100 miles away at the time. Why? 2) Mercury includes the shift control with the tiller throttle control. My wife and I viewed this as important if a situation arose where she had to assume sole command. Having to reach over or through the pushpit to reach a shift lever in many situations does not instill a feeling of control. In contrast, however, after a short learning time with the Mercury, Les eagerly assumed command to moor or dock our boat where before she would only do so under ideal conditions. And 3) for heavy displacement boats, Mercury offers a Command Thrust model (previously referred to as Big Foot, I think) with a lower gear ratio, a more substantial lower unit and a four-blade prop. These options are not necessary and add 6-7 lbs to the total weight, as well as to the cost, but the control at low speeds they offer in non-ideal conditions is remarkable.

In short all I'm trying to say is read the details about each make/model while deciding.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Erik Cornelison
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2018 : 18:40:51

My friend owns a boat repair shop since 1981, he knows the business. He recommends a Tohatsu or Suzuki. Because you can get parts for them.

He does not recommend the Evinrude or Nissan because parts are hard to get for them. Yes the Nissan is a Tohatsu, but the parts are not the same for cross reference. My dock neighbor had a hard time getting his 2016 Nissan repaired this summer, due to the parts problems. Evinrude stops making replacement parts as soon as 10 years, so be aware.

I�m happy with my 9.9 Mercury 25" Long shaft BIGFOOT.

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234

Edited by - Erik Cornelison on 01/02/2019 15:44:02

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2019 : 08:16:03

The one feature that outweighs everything else for a 25' sailboat in my opinion, unless you sail on a pond, is the shaft length. If a candidate motor doesn't offer a 25" option (what they often call "transom height"), I'd cross if off.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2019 : 11:31:50

Hey since we're talking about outboards I stated above I have a Tohatsu 9.8 does anyone recommend a Sunbrella (or equivalent) cover? I think my main cover, UV genoa protector and tiller covers are all "Pacific Blue.
Thanks

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3367 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2019 : 04:42:04

I have used covers on my Honda 9.9. I first bought a "Taylor" brand outboard cover which I thought may have been sunbrella but I just checked West Marine and they list it as Poly/Cotton. In any case, t was fairly thin material and did not last that long...maybe 2-3 years. I then bought a "Blue Performance" brand cover but forget where on the web I bought it. A search indicates that the matl is listed as Rip Stop Nylon. In any case, the Blue Performance cover held up a lot longer but it was also more expensive. Believe it lasted at least 5 years or re and then I bought another one.

If you can get or make a cover out of Sunbrella, I suspect it will last a very long time since my tiller and main sail Sunbrella covers have lasted for a very long time...probably over 10 years and still look fine.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2019 : 17:26:36

I know this subject is worn out, however I am in the same position. Tohatsu, Suzuki, Honda, and Mercury all seem to have slightly different features these day. You can't get an alternator without elec. Start. And you cant buy with a high thrust prop without power trim. I have been very torn about this. Add EFI, and even more issues. I have been leaning toward the Merc Bigfoot. Although I don't care for the tiller shift. Embarrassed to admit that it has caused problems. Boats... always a tradeoff. 25in a must? It will dip the water on the mooring, but I have had problems in high seas with a 20. Hope this helps or any thoughts?

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Edited by - Akenumber on 01/04/2019 17:28:17

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2019 : 20:18:45

FWIW -- my decision tree went as follows: 25 inch shaft; alternator (elect Start); weight; brand. The Tohatsu 9.8 fit all the best, and was then (2007) cheapest. All engines have had redesigns that seem to have added weight. As I am in salt water, a power tilt/trim makes no sense -- but might in fresh water. Cutting through it all, all engines mentioned are solid contenders. Just make sure your engine bracket is appropriate for the weight of whichever you choose -- and if not, Catalina Direct has a solution.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2019 : 08:35:01

Hey Peter,

Please explain to me why power tilt in salt water makes no sense but maybe ok for fresh water. What am I missing ? Thanks, Bladeswell.

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2019 : 11:53:02

Well, I did it. Tohatsu 9.9 EFI 25 inch electric start 12amp charging with 4 blade prop. Online outboards a little over 2.500 dollars. Can't wait for it to get here.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2019 : 12:39:41

Hi All,

Just remembered one more important negative aspect about the Suzuki 9.9. If your boat is used in salt water,as mine is, It is very important to be able to flush the cooling system with fresh water after every use. Unfortunately, you can not use the standard "Earmuff" type flushing on the Suzuki. You will need to buy a special threaded pipe nipple with the outer end a hose barb. Next problem , the attachment point is at the very rear of the engine, not on one side or the other. In order to get to it, you will almost have to be "backed " into your slip. All things considered, just very inconvenient. When it's time to replace mine, I'm going Tohatsu.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2019 : 12:58:27

Ken, Congrarulations. I think your going to be very pleased. Now about the motor mount..... Online outboards had the motor at my doorstep in like 3-4 days. Check it before the delivery guy leaves. The box was a little beat up but the motor was fine. Remember, It's shipped dry, No engine oil but the lower unit is filled. Good luck!

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2019 : 13:28:15

Probably the first EFI in this group (not counting my Honda 225)�we�ll be waiting for a report!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/05/2019 13:32:01

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2019 : 15:32:21

Oh, and by the way Islander that would be a perfect motor. However it's not offered anymore. It's only available in a 20 inch. These days. The 9.9 seems to be the way to go. I have it shipped to my work where we have a forklift. Thank's for the congrats. I will keep everyone posted. And yes I know it's heavy. 3 spring now, so we will see.

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Edited by - Akenumber on 01/05/2019 18:53:45

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2019 : 18:51:32

The battery less EFI seems simple as a mechanics point of view. Let's hope so...

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2019 : 06:09:52

Ken, As I said in my first comment I to couldn't find the 9.8 25" with online outboards. Only the 20". I didn't know if it was just a typo on the web site or not because Tohatsu says it's offered in 15,20,25. Wow, I guess I got the last one if they have stopped offering it.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2019 : 15:10:23

Bladeswell:

Friend with a Yamaha 9.9, 25 inch shaft, power tilt on his Oday 272 (similar engine mount, etc) found the power tilt froze after two seasons of use on Long Island Sound (salt water) including the regular dunking in swells and chop caused as the engine/boat pitched -- very costly to repair.

Ken:

Do check the engine carefully upon delivery. I bought mine from Online Outboards -- got it fast, great price, but the metal case was ever so slightly bent in shipment and the fiberglass cover has never stayed on correctly. If I had caught it quickly, they would have replaced it. If the engine case is not tightly attached when delivered, check it very carefully.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2019 : 17:58:47

So the 9.9 Tohatsu arrived in good condition. I was planning on breaking it in on conventional oil and maybe switching to a full synthetic. Any recommendations? Curious about your thoughts?

Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN

Edited by - Akenumber on 01/11/2019 17:59:54

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2019 : 18:58:43

Not a bad idea and is what I did. The conventional oil is used as a break in oil to set the rings etc. something that synthetic won't do as well or so I've read.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

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