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ted
Deckhand

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Canada
21 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/09/2019 : 13:39:21

Can I put a 123 pound motor safely on a Catalina 25

Ted Ison

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2019 : 17:19:30

My first question is �Can you?� I�ll guarantee you that I cannot. Too heavy, I�d drop it in the drink. ;-)
But seriously, many of us have engines that are approximately 100-110#. Yours is not much heavier. But what kind of mounting bracket do you have? Is the rating substantial enough for 123#? Seems like a lot but if the bracket is rated for it, if it was installed with proper reinforcement backing plates and stout enough bolts and washers, then you should be golden.
There�s still a lot of ifs in that sentence. It�s a small word that means a lot!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2019 : 17:40:46

Catalina recommends up to a 9.9 hp motor. They usually don't weigh that much, so I'd guess you're thinking about putting a 15 or 20 or 25 hp motor on it. If so, that adds not only weight, but also torque and thrust beyond what the designer and builder contemplated. For most people a 6 hp, 59 lb or similar motor would be sufficient, and much easier to lift on and off and carry to your car.

I had a 79 lb motor and it was difficult for one man to put on the boat alone. My friend has a 108 lb motor, and it's a 2 man job.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

ted
Deckhand

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Canada
21 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2019 : 18:27:01

I'm not inclined to personally lift the motor onto the boat. The motor is a Suzuki 9.9 with power tilt. I don't plan to take the motor off the boat but I have a goose neck crane at home and a mast crane at our club which I can use. The surveyor said the bracket will handle the motor, it appears to be a very substantial bracket. It's a stainless steel Aquamarine unit rated for 20 hp motor. Changing the backing plate is not a problem if need be. Our yacht club is only 2 km from home so trailering will be at a minimum with the motor on the transom. A smaller motor might not be enough at times; I sail on Lake Ontario and St Lawrence river, sometimes extra power is good coming and going from my slip. We're downsizing from a Tanzer 8.5 with a Yanmar 3gm30 and there were times when I used all the engine. I was wondering if the transom on the C25 would support the weight, my surveyor thinks it will be fine. I just bought the C25 and now waiting for insurance to come through before I put it in he water. Thx for the comments, I like this forum, lots of info.

Ted Ison

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2019 : 07:38:04

The critical issue with weight is having a bracket that can handle the weight (Garhauer four spring model available through CD), and mounting it properly so there is enough transom support. Most of the 9.8 four strokes weigh between 98 lbs. and 120 lbs.- so it can be done. I would caution about the power tilt. If you are in fresh water it probably will be ok, but those I know who have them on their bracket mounted sailboat transom in salt water find they need to replace many of the parts frequently as when operating the tilt system gets dunked when in a swell or fetch with corrosion quickly setting in. There are lots of threads on size/weight of outboards if you search the archives.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

ted
Deckhand

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Canada
21 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2019 : 08:08:13

I'm in fresh water in Kingston and will not likely ever be in salt water. Thx for the tip, I have seen corrosion problems from boats going south.

Ted Ison

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2019 : 08:25:49

I have not been to Kingston in quite awhile but I love the area. I have visited the Rideau Canal, Fort Henry, and Boldt Castle.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2019 : 08:57:52

Another issue is how the bracket is mounted. I doubt the additional weight is that much of an issue--if it were a 15-20 hp motor, the additional power might be.

The motor is a long lever, such that in forward gear, the bottom of the bracket is pushing in against the transom and the top is pulling out. (In reverse, it would be the opposite, except the weight of the motor offsets some of those forces.) The transom is probably adequately stiff for the 90 lb. 9.9 motors of the C-25's era, but the 4-strokes these days are more of a load, and a 25" (XL) shaft adds to the leverage under power. For my 108 lb. Honda 8 (the same as Honda's 9.9 except for the cam) I put a Starboard plate on the transom, reaching several inches below the bottom edge of the bracket, and added something (maybe Starboard) as a backer for the upper bolts inside the transom. (I think I only had fender washers inside on the lower bolts.)

I'll suggest that any backing plate inside should have the edges and corners rounded slightly to reduce point-pressures against the slight concave shape of the hull.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/10/2019 09:07:36

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2019 : 11:25:57

Regarding reinforcing the Catalina 25 transom to support the weight and thrust of a 10 hp long shaft 4-stroke outboard.

On my boat, and I assume other early model C25s, there is an air gap between the hull and liner where the motor mount attaches. Also, the liner wasn't intended to be much of a structural member, so wasn't built especially thick. Might have been deliberately on the thin side to help it conform to the much stiffer hull during assembly, and of course to keep down weight and production cost.

Adding rectangular reinforcing plates at the motor mount and its fasteners is all well and good. However, cranking down on those bolts is unlikely to completely close up that air gap without distorting liner, hull, or both. At the least, will put an unhelpful preload on the fiberglass right where you're trying to reduce stress.

After I discovered the hull/liner gap, I cut through the LINER ONLY with a 3" or so hole saw. After measuring the distance from the inner surface of the hull to the inner surface of the liner, I used that same hole saw to cut plywood 'cookies' the same thickness.

After saturating those plywood disks with epoxy, I bedded them in the circular cutouts in the liner using lots of thickened epoxy mush and clamped them through the mount bolt holes using waxed bolts, fender washers, and nuts with greased threads. (Finger tight is enough, don't try to crank them down tight.) I also troweled as much epoxy mush as I could into the circular saw kerf gap around each disk, and smoothed the squeeze out with a body putty squeegee before it started to harden.

When using temporary fasteners through epoxy as clamps, I like to remove, or at least break them loose, as soon as they're no longer needed for clamping. If concerned about releasing clamping force prematurely, then just turn them a few degrees to break the soft epoxy adhesion before the clamping screws inadvertently become a permanent part of the work.

I don't remember now if I did the drill 2x oversize, fill with reinforced epoxy, and redrill to finished diameter trick, but this would be an appropriate place to do so. Could do it to the disks just after cutting them, while coating them with epoxy.

Filling the air gap with something solid allows one to get a satisfying amount of torque on the motor mount bolts without hearing fiberglass tearing. Without filling the hull/liner gap at the fasteners, engine thrust is more likely to distort the fiberglass enough to release tension on the mount bolts, break the sealant, and allowing water to intrude.

� Leon Sisson

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2019 : 15:18:33

FWIW, my 1985 transom had a dense foam between the outer transom and the liner. That might not do much to prevent distortion from tightening bolts, but it really grabbed the bit of my drill and yanked it from the hull into the liner!

I counted on the plates I added inside and out (with some sealant under them) to spread the force from "reasonably" tightening the bolts after the sealant set up, thereby conforming to the slightly curved fiberglass. The whole thing seemed rock-solid in the end. Of course, Leon's method is better!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/11/2019 15:20:08

ted
Deckhand

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Canada
21 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2019 : 08:18:55

Bought a 1989 C25 and a Merc Pro Kicker long shaft with tilt, weighs 114 pounds

Ted Ison

JanS48
Navigator

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USA
141 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2019 : 13:21:52

Greetings
I purchased a 15HP Mercury long shaft for my 82 C25, I did replace the bracket which turned into a major task since when I removed the old bracket along with it came a couple layers of fiberglass.
Anyway, after repairing the damage and mounting a new 4 spring bracket, the Mercury 15 powers it along nicely. That motor weighs in at 120 lbs.

This particular model is much the same as a Mercury 9.9 of the same year (2004), I'm told the main dif was the carb.

I'd be sure you have a strong bracket.

Good luck

Jan

82 C25 SR FK
Sailing out of Newport Harbor.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2019 : 20:09:57

quote:
Originally posted by JanS48

...I did replace the bracket which turned into a major task since when I removed the old bracket along with it came a couple layers of fiberglass.

It must have been bedded with 3M 5200.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

JanS48
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
141 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2019 : 22:03:45

Yep on the 5200, great stuff for some applications but not for an engine mount.
Jan

82 C25 SR FK
Sailing out of Newport Harbor.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2019 : 05:23:18

...or practically anything else a boater does to a boat.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

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