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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Head removal and Holding Tank

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Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/09/2020 : 12:10:31

I'm following another thread on Porta-Potti's closely. My C25 has one of the original heads. It will need to go. It seems like many of you have replaced with a porta potti and there is a great discussion happening here. [http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=31317]

My question is basically this, while I have my boat dry docked and I'm working on it, what can I do to get ready for a Porta Potti? Subquestions: Do I still need to keep the old holding tank at all (like for the sink drains)? When you switch to a Porta Potti, what do you need to do when you remove the old head in terms of removal of plumbing and closing old hoses and pipes off? Can I do anything now to test the current head and holding tank, like flush clean wate and ECOTANK down into it and then flush the holding when it goes in the water next month? (I have no power source at the drydock and can only carry in water), and I am afraid yet of the battery compartment :). Anyone here think I should stay with the old head-style, how should I make those decisions? My search for "head" ended without many results, not sure why.

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)

Edited by - Caribbean Soul on 05/09/2020 12:11:28

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2020 : 13:34:44

Why is your existing head unsatisfactory? Is it broken, inoperable, smelly, unsanitary? What do you want to accomplish? Why are you thinking about changing it?

If you have a pump out station available where you keep your boat, then the least expensive, least labor-intensive thing to do would be to keep it. If it's dirty or doesn't work, it can be replaced fairly inexpensively (about $200.), and it isn't a bad job to DIY if you can use basic hand tools.

If you don't have access to a pump out station, then converting to a porta potty is probably your best solution.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2020 : 14:21:09

Thanks Steve! Great question. I just bought the boat, and head is just is very "used" - I will clean soon and be able to give a better answer. How would I go about testing it while the boat is up in the cradle. I can definitely pump it out near my dock. Would love to keep the original design, even if the head itself is new. it just seemed the forum was leaning toward porta.

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)

keats
Navigator

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USA
215 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2020 : 18:06:22

We have pump out facilities at our marina and I find the head and holding tank to be a great feature of the boat for the day use and short cruising we do. I replaced the worn out head with a new one some years back.

You will make the call based on your research and situation and helpful input from experienced people like Steve.

To answer your plumbing questions, check the owner's manual, which you can access here http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/manbro.asp, as you'll find the layout and components.

The fresh water tank feeds only the faucets in the galley sink and head sink, if you have two sinks. Both those sinks drain through the hull. These through-hull drains have valves that should be closed normally and open only when needed. The ice box in the galley drains through the same valve as the galley sink.

The head draws water through the hull for flushing. The head, and only the head, drains to the holding tank.

You should locate and check the condition of your through hull valves before you launch.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA

Edited by - keats on 05/10/2020 03:06:01

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2020 : 19:19:06

I�d agree with Tim. If you have an existing built-in head and holding tank that are in serviceable shape - perhaps it needs a good cleaning, maybe some replacement hoses or valves. If you can get it back in shape economically AND you have a local pump-out facility, then you�ll have a very nice situation for daysails, overnights and whatever.

But make ABSOLUTELY sure that there no way that the head can be accidentally dumped or pumped overboard. If you�re ever boarded by USCG or Lake Patrol, this will result in a major fine. Just the ability to accidentally pump it overboard without a locking valve or compartment.

If, however, one or more issues go against you: no local pumpout, a broken system that�s beyond a reasonable repair, then a portapotty is not a bad alternative.

I�d say use it judiciously - if you�re at a marina, then use their facilities - even if it�s the middle of the night. I find it�s usually used for #1 which is no problem to clean out at a land-based lavatory. Some kind of spray cleaner provides the finishing touches.

For #2, you might have to bring a closepin for your nose, but it ain�t hard to clean out properly or completely. I�ve done it a handful of times in my career and the thought of it is worse than the reality - if you�re extremely mindful and careful. Just watch out for your shoes!!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

glivs
Admiral

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USA
822 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2020 : 20:46:04

Caribbean Soul...greetings.
As Steve already noted, your sailing venue and access to a pump out will help in your decision. Beyond that, marine head vs. porta-potti is a personal thing and there are arguments on both sides. Like many others, I've had both and I much prefer the convenience of a marine head although the cost of a pump out seems to go up every year. That said, a few tips on testing your current system.

Testing - If your system has been idle for some time, even just over winter, there is a reasonable probability the pump seals will have dried such that the pump will not draw water. Liberally pour a cup or more of "Head lube" or mineral oil into the bowl and pump a couple of times to ensure the seals are coated. Wait over night for the seals to swell before testing the pump.

In the meanwhile, check and lube the thru-hull. Seriously important.

As you are on the hard, to test the head pump, close the thru-hull and pour a gallon or so of water into the head sink with the sink drain open. Because the thru-hull is closed, the water will fill the drain hose and the remainder will stay in the sink. The head pump will draw from this water source. You may have to do this again when you launch to prime the pump if it will not draw water from the thru-hull.

If the pump still will not draw water you still have options.
- Open the pump mechanism....typically four screws hold it together... and manually coat the rubber seals on the pump with a thin layer of Vasoline to help them seal. This is not something you would want to do regularly but can do wonders to help kick start an older system.

While you have the pump open, take a look at the joker valve near the base of the pump....a rubber duck-bill looking thing. If the bills will not close or the rubber feels hard, then your pump may not function and the valve should be replaced (inexpensive). You'll need to know the approximate year the pump was manufactured, however, to order the correct valve.

Other options....Don't know the brand you have but Jabsco was a common original brand because of their moderate cost. If so and if the bowl is in good shape and can be cleaned, you can purchase a pump rebuild kit or replace the entire pump for a reasonably easy fix. I would recommend replacing the entire pump rather than the rebuild kit if your system is of any age. The twist-n-lock new pumps are just a much better design. Pay attention to how yours is oriented before ordering. Of course you can also replace the entire head for a bit more.

On older systems, a common issue is smell if septic gases have permeated the waste hose or mildew formed in the feed line. If so, just replacing the hoses can make a huge difference. Conceptually this is not difficult but the waste hoses are not highly flexible and you may need to employ a bit of hot water or a hair dryer and a bit of muscle to make the connections. They are not essential, but a non-petroleum jelly like electricians use to pull wires through a raceway and a pvc ratchet cutter from your local hardware or building supply store can greatly simplify your tasks of cutting the hoses to length and sliding them over fittings. And always double up your hose clamps to minimize the chance that a hose can come loose when the thru-hull is open.

Come fall, just remember to pump out and flush a gallon or so of RV antifreeze into your holding tank.

Let us know what you decide, and keep asking questions, but hopefully this will help you if you decide to stay with a marine head.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Caribbean Soul
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2020 : 04:47:28

Bruce, you mean the thru-hull valve must be operating properly? Is that what you mean by "locking valve?" I live on the lake so the very last thing I would ever want is anything unsafe or bad for the water. This boat isn't even going in the water until I learn enough to know those things with confidence. Gerry & Leslie, and all, I've read these post already about 15 times and it's not even 8am. THANK YOU. I'm trying not to ask too many questions on the forum. So I will explore solutions for the ones I've asked already first! For now, I'm going to clean the head, learn the system (I bought the manual from CD hard copy), and trace it around to learn the terminology and translate these suggestions into the reality of my boat, testing as Glivs suggests. I would like to keep the marine head now, since there is a pump out close up the lake from me. Much appreciated for helping me get to that decision! If things are a disaster, I'll change course.

Caribbean Soul - Ithaca NY - C25 - 1983 - SR/FK - Traditional layout - #3429 - She's Fixin' a Boat - Help!! :)

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2020 : 08:32:07

Caribbean Soul,
My comment about the �dump valve� is that many boats� heads have a way to allow the contents of the bowl to be flushed through the hull directly into the water. Blue water boats that can travel offshore can do this outside the international limits and on ocean crossings.

As a vessel safety inspector with the US Power Squadrons, I volunteer to check local boats for all their safety and compliance points: flares, lights, horns, life jackets,fire extinguishers, you name it. Once we complete the checklist we recommend the owner voluntarily correct the missed items so they will avoid being fined if boarded by law enforcement. Once in compliance we certify their boats and give them a safe boating sticker.

In the past few years new regulations have been enacted to prevent accidental overboard discharge of sewage. According to the regs, boaters must: (1) disable the valve (remove it), (2) lock the valve with a key lock or (3) lock the hatch with a key lock where the valve is located.

In today�s world with most people aware that this would be a very bad thing to do, the concern is not that a knowing captain or crew would intentionally dump overboard, but that a person unfamiliar with the boat could turn all the handles and levers trying to flush the head and unintentionally do a dumb thing. This happens with alarming regularity.

You identified the situation exactly: learn about all the workings of the boat, make sure everything is in good working order and use it safely. Looks like that�s your plan.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2020 : 09:12:16

Have you considered a composting toilet?

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

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