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odonnellryanc
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108 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/06/2018 :  10:09:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey all! Looking forward to the season to start here in the NE!

We bought some new electronics. GPS, new radio, and AIS transponder.

Lots of big boats in the Hudson. I think the transponder will really pay off, and it'll tie well into the radio + radar.

We have one solid 120Ah gel battery, but ideally I'd like to get at least an additional 200Ah. Super overkill I'm sure, but better than being without lights :)

I can squeeze another 120Ah battery into the starboard compartment, but I'd rather not do that. The one we have now sits comfortably.

Has anyone here split the bank up, putting two batteries in the port settee locker? I figure this way I will have a wide range of options as to which batteries to buy, and I figure if I put them in proper cases and secure them correctly there should be no problem.

Any thoughts as to what might go wrong here? Only other thing I think of is I'll need to invest in some fairly high gauge wire to run to the charge controller and work on the isolation between the two banks, but I'd need to isolate them anyway even if they were placed together.

Thanks, happy sailing!

trbagpiper
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2018 :  10:30:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As part of the restoration I did/doing I put in 3 class 31 AGMs. The electric I did was a full tearout(not that there was much) and rebuild. I have a dinette layout. 1 under the STB bench and 2 under the AFT dinette seat. I had to build a small platform for that. I too believe in overkill but I am an engineer. Go Big or Go Home. New panel, relays and fuse blocks. All Blue Sea Systems. Just make sure you get your wire size and fuses right. DC is a lot different than AC. I sized all my wire based on a 3% loss. I mounted everything in the dumper right behind the galley.



Jim V
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"
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odonnellryanc
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108 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2018 :  14:40:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Awesome! Thanks a lot. Looks great. We also are in process of doing a complete rewire... about 50% of the way there. The wire in these boats gets fairly brittle after 35 years :)
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2018 :  15:07:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow! That's a beautiful job. I like the fact you were able to flatten out the bottom of this area under the dinette seat.

I was looking at the photo and I wonder are your fuses built into the terminal blocks or are they located somewhere in line with the cables?
Also a minor point - and I'm not sure whether there's code on this in your area - but usually the positive terminal is colored red while the negative is black. This prevents misidentification in the case of an emergency. It's probably less important on a boat than in a car since cars have much more "grounded" metal.
Nonetheless Very impressive.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain Stratford & Milford, CT
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trbagpiper
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2018 :  15:27:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not to worry, the cables are the proper colors. Only the caps on the fuse holders are red. Since ABYC code requires that batteries be fused within "7 wire inches" of the battery, I used a dual MTBF fuse holder from Blue Sea Systems. 1 fuse is "outbound" to load and 1 "inbound" from the battery charger. They attach to the battery, drop the fuses in and bolt your wires on top of the fuses.

I hope it's ok to use this picture, it's the easiest way to see the detail.


Jim V
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"
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hbushey
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2018 :  17:55:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We too are doing a complete rewire of the boat. Got a bunch of Blue Sea Systems and Ancor product purchased from Defender.
Be putting in new DC and AC shore power breaker panels, new battery switch and a two bank charger with integrated charging relay, new garmin instruments if budget allows. We're planning on putting two Group 27 AGMs in the compartment aft of the cabin steps, those will either be Trojans or West Marine.

Heather and Scott
“Respite”
1989 C-25 TR/WK
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Good Times
1st Mate

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39 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2018 :  20:13:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
question: from the pics it appears you have the terminal fuses on both the positive and the negative leads, why on both?
just curious.

Andy Kohler

C25 #6012 TR WK
traditional layout

16ft Apollo Dinghy
16ft Hobie Cat
21ft SanJuan
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trbagpiper
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2018 :  09:15:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The fuses on the negative side are just case of a back feed. At the price of AGM batteries, it's insurance. I've started the albums of the renovation. Since a few of you are working on this, I did the electric album but it's work in progress.


Jim V
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"
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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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699 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2018 :  10:27:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trbagpiper

The fuses on the negative side are just case of a back feed. At the price of AGM batteries, it's insurance. I've started the albums of the renovation. Since a few of you are working on this, I did the electric album but it's work in progress.





Nice panel! Did you relocate the sink to keep it away from the electrical bulkhead?



Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
http://whichsailboat.com/2015/08/22/catalina-22-review/
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trbagpiper
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2018 :  11:12:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks. I haven't gotten 1 yet but when I do it will go where the stove would be. We don't plan on doing much cooking right now. If that changes, I'll figure something out.

Jim V
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"
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keats
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2018 :  19:37:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is a beautiful setup. Very nice.

Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA
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odonnellryanc
Navigator

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108 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2018 :  10:42:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very inspirational! I haven't replaced the original panel on mine. Not sure if I will. Like the job you did with the radio!
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Erik Cornelison
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USA
100 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2018 :  08:17:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trbagpiper

The fuses on the negative side are just case of a back feed. At the price of AGM batteries, it's insurance. I've started the albums of the renovation. Since a few of you are working on this, I did the electric album but it's work in progress.





The new panel looks really nice, can you share what panel it is?

Erik Cornelison
6th Generation Professional Sailor, First Gen Submarine Sailor.
1986 Standard Rig SW. #5234
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trbagpiper
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2018 :  14:22:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually it's 3 panels. Left to right, Blue Sea Sytems, AC 8043, DC 8023 and DC 8068. If you click on the picture, it's a link to the start of the album I'm creating for the electric. My wife and I have spent 2 years restoring "This Old Boat" and I've started uploading all the pictures into albums. Everything from electric, woodwork, bulkheads, gelcoat, paint...................

Jim V
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"
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odonnellryanc
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108 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2018 :  06:36:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That really is gorgeous work in that album. I'd be happy to get even half-way there!

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trbagpiper
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2018 :  06:41:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks. As with everyone here on the boards, if you have a question, I'd be happy to help if I can.

Jim V
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"
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odonnellryanc
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108 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2018 :  07:01:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks! Looks like you're using switches to swap between battery banks? I was thinking of using something like this: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=blue-sea-systems-m-acr-mini-automatic-charging-relay&path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=2264350

I also have the additional problem of having to charge a trolling motor for our inflatable boat. I haven't come up with a great solution for this yet. I've been thinking of a battery-to-battery solution, but the expense there is more than I feel I need to spend.

Would you see any issues with a third battery bank that I just disconnect when I want to use the electric motor on the inflatable from time-to-time? I don't see an immediate issue as long as the banks are isolated.
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trbagpiper
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2018 :  08:37:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just so we understand, you're thinking of dealing with 3 "battery banks". 1 for your outboard(120Ah), 1 for house(200Ah) and 1 for the trolling motor. Since you only have 1 battery now, switching becomes a consideration as well. All the mACR 7601 is going to do is isolate other batteries when starting and if something goes wrong with the engine alternator(undercurrent or overcurrent), otherwise after 30 seconds it will charge the connected batteries once voltage from the alternator stabilizes. When the engine is not running, it will isolate the engine battery from house drain. If you ever want to be able to start you engine from the other 2 batteries if the engine battery goes dead, this is where switching comes in or choose a different ACR like the 7622.

I used 3 7700 ML-remote battery switches and 1 7622 ML-ACR. Once you make a final decision on just what you're going to do, I can help with a schematic.

If you haven't already, I would recommend looking at the PDF instructions on the Blue Sea site. All of them have schematics for wiring. There are also videos on their site and on their channel on YouTube.

Jim V
'78 Cat 25 #945 SK/SR "Pipe Dream"
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odonnellryanc
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108 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2018 :  11:17:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Jim! Just realized how unhelpful my response was :) sorry about that!

I don't mind having two/three isolated banks without the capability to use the house as the starter in a pinch. I feel that is the simplest design, no? As long as they are charged from the same source, which is in my case a solar panel and charge controller.

Previously I was using the same battery for the minimal house usage and to start the engine and I was content with that. Worst-case we can't get the engine started, and that can be a problem in an emergency situation, but I feel I am OK with that level of risk.

Adding in the new electronics, well, yeah using the same bank for house + start is a bad idea!

How do you feel about using the device I linked to isolate the two or three banks? I say two or three because it's OK for me to have to disconnect the "third bank" which is the trolling motor when we rarely want to use it, that inconvenience won't bother me. However, if you feel this is a bad idea, then I can always figure out a way to do a DC-DC charging rig. I already have a hobby charger that works, but is not as ... robust as I'd like.

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Wnccat25
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2018 :  19:14:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would not put in 2 ddifferent size or even aged batteries. In a flash light, much less a boat. If you turn on both at once power will constantly flow from one to the other causing heat. If u use 2 at once, do not do it long,and charge them separately.

Curtis Boyd, 89 Catalina 25,wing keel,short rig,
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