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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Head sail Stuck

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vdotmatrix
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USA
139 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/10/2018 : 17:18:05

Order a new headsail and put her on yesterday but it seemed like the luff was made too long because we couldn't hoist it all the way up....then tonight I wanted to drop the sail and measure the luff.....It WILL NOT BUDGE.

Then I notice that the stainless plate at the top of the furler is suddenly 180 degrees from the sail-foil....It won't go up won't come down, and now something is out of whack...

I am sure someone will look at these pictures and say-OH YEAH that happened to us and will know exactly what the issue is...

I HOPE..

Here goes!!!

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/1HRnZJTzagg4K7YNmlIM5SknW9s0q9W8eacrNBBQYIL

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2018 : 19:26:50

The problem seems to be that one half of the plastic foil has come about 4-6" out of the bottom drum arrangement and now the plastic foil is twisted around the forestay... No harm done just...

1) Unwrap your canvas completely

2) Take all tension off the halyard and drop canvas. You will have to align the plastic foil back with the feeder slot in the furler drum arrangement. In the photo's it is twisted

3) Loosen the hexagon screws at the foot of the sail

4) Re-align your plastic foil and push it into the bottom furler roller and tighten the hexagon screws again. Make sure the plastic foil lines up with the foil feeder slot

5) Feed the canvas foil into the foil slot and hoist all the way up. Secure...

6) After the sail is completely up, roll up canvas manually

7) Now unroll the canvas while feeling your sheet from right to left into the furler drum... add 4 or 5 extra turns

8) Voila... you're ready to go

Even though others may have different or better procedures this has worked well for us

Henk & Johanna
"Floating", a few off your "barnacles".
"Someday Lady" '95 C250WB #151 ('03 - 2016)
"Sea ya" 30ft Bayliner (04-2018 - 09-2018)
"Mariah" '96 C250WB #191 (05-2019 - 15-05-2023)
"Lady J" '00 C250WK #499 (05-2021 - 09-2022)

Edited by - zeil on 07/10/2018 19:42:28

vdotmatrix
Navigator

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USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2018 : 02:33:55

THANK YOU. How does this happen? We cannot drop the sail.?

quote:
Originally posted by zeil

The problem seems to be that one half of the plastic foil has come about 4-6" out of the bottom drum arrangement and now the plastic foil is twisted around the forestay... No harm done just...

1) Unwrap your canvas completely

2) Take all tension off the halyard and drop canvas. You will have to align the plastic foil back with the feeder slot in the furler drum arrangement. In the photo's it is twisted

3) Loosen the hexagon screws at the foot of the sail

4) Re-align your plastic foil and push it into the bottom furler roller and tighten the hexagon screws again. Make sure the plastic foil lines up with the foil feeder slot

5) Feed the canvas foil into the foil slot and hoist all the way up. Secure...

6) After the sail is completely up, roll up canvas manually

7) Now unroll the canvas while feeling your sheet from right to left into the furler drum... add 4 or 5 extra turns

8) Voila... you're ready to go

Even though others may have different or better procedures this has worked well for us

Edited by - vdotmatrix on 07/11/2018 02:38:15

vdotmatrix
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2018 : 08:27:56

Upon closure inspection, i see that i have lost my top cap. And the foil has slipped...i ordered a top cap and have to go up the mast to free the the top swivel so the sail can be dropped. I hope i can straighten out the foil without much effort or removing the foil altogether.......

I shouldnt have to remove the plate ever after I align everything right?

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2018 : 09:21:42

One half of the plastic furler has come out of the bottom drum arrangement by about 2-3 inches when you hoisted the sail. Because the sail is new it has more friction in the sailslot and would have pulled the plastic out of the drum. Consequently the plastic foil twisted

To fix... first the sail needs to be unwrapped all the way, top to bottom, from the furler. Keep while doing that tension on the halyard.

Once completely unwrapped try to straighten/untwist the plastic foil. Since the sail foil is outside of the foil feed slot in the drum slide the sail down, by releasing the halyard, outside of the foil feed slot in the drum.

Repair the plastic foil back into the drum making sure it lines up again with the foil-feed in the drum and secure.

Start over bending on your sail while making sure the plastic foil at the drum connection stays in place. Hoisting and feeding the sail foil into the plastic slot should be smooth and easy all the way up.

Feel free to call me at 604 five three zero, oh five oh six

vdotmatrix
Navigator

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USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2018 : 15:38:55

thankyou i knew this disaster couldbe eadily explained.

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2018 : 17:01:19

You're most welcome... fixing the black cap on top of the furler is of little concern. Have a great sailing summer. We miss ours

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2018 : 20:04:56

Something kept nagging while looking at your photo's... finally it dawned on me that you do not seem to have a forestay swivel on your forestay connected to the mast car.

The swivel will deflect sideways forces created by the pressure from the sail on your forestay at masthead.

In order to install the swivel you need to shorten the forestay the equivalent lenght of the swivel which is approx. 2 inches (measure center to center of openings)

Contact me if you wish to have one

Edited by - zeil on 07/11/2018 20:13:11

vdotmatrix
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2018 : 13:19:23

OMG...we fought with the sail for an hour. they hauled me up to see if the top swivel had died....I sprayed sailkote along the length of the foil and sail where ever i could reach....we were finally able to pull the sail down. We got a mallet and tapped the foil until it was even and re-threaded the sail into the foil and hoisted it up.....

WAAAYYY too much effor to do this. The sail doesnt fit this foil and the foil would POP out of the furler.

We finally were about to give up when I had the idea to hoist without the plate. we got it all the way up but the foil went with it....

We were at least able to furl it and put the (*^&$^%#^$%#^$&%^ thing to bed until I could find a solution.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/UqDHHrU4lOfqGyBCeonxG1yQMUD2xV6FCTqsaVTAGBX

anyideas?

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2018 : 14:12:36

Wonder if your luff tape size is too big for the foil slot. Way to much friction if it's pulling the foil up with the sail.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 07/12/2018 14:14:11

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1297 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2018 : 14:33:36

Glad you were able to take the sail down.

If the #6 plastic furler foil slot does not match the sail's #6 leading edge or whatever it is, nothing will work.

At this time it probably would be a good idea to invite your sail-maker to the boat and have them take a look and make, what seems to me, some essential adjustments

Please keep posting your findings

BTW It looks to be a very nice sail complete with foam padding and UV protector cover

Just in case you store the furler over winter here are some ideas that work very well

Tube used to store the plastic furler extrusion

Securing the furler extrusion inside the storage tube

Preparing the furler extrusion in the tube for winter storage. When not in use the tube, in 3 sections of each 10ft long, will store nicely on the trailer with a couple of bungees.

vdotmatrix
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2018 : 19:24:08

You guys are SPOT on with your assessment, so was Catalina. They put the wrong luff tape on my new sail and they want it back. So I am going to somehow remove the sail again and send it back to them. It was impossibly hard to put the sail on... We got it off today by grabbing the luff-line and (&()*^&^%$ pulling down. The foil would separate and we'd freak but now I know what is happening....so, when I man handle this thing again, i want to keep the foil from separating.

hope this link works: https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/UqDHHrU4lOfqGyBCeonxG1yQMUD2xV6FCTqsaVTAGBX/gallery/Jb5XxsDsRhOil78DCgANUg?pageIndex=0

so if I left the plate on and perhaps put a small block of wood on the furler, we could pull the sail down, foil resting on the block.....

any other ideas for extracting this sail....one of our guys wanted to clamp wood pieces to the sail and pull....i think the only place to grasp the sail is by the luff-line...right?

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2018 : 04:09:12

As I said above, Wrong size tape! If the sail is off just send it back. When you get it back with the right size tape you won't have this problem. The sail will go on much easier just by pulling it up with your hand power or a little help from a winch but should come down just with hand power.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

vdotmatrix
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2018 : 04:52:08

quote:
Originally posted by islander

As I said above, Wrong size tape! If the sail is off just send it back. When you get it back with the right size tape you won't have this problem. The sail will go on much easier just by pulling it up with your hand power or a little help from a winch but should come down just with hand power.

yup, they are paying for shipping. I never had an issue raising or lowering the headsail.. thanks again

vdotmatrix
Navigator

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USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2018 : 05:49:54

If we cannot pull the sail down by grabbing it by the luff line, is splitting the foil an option?

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2018 : 08:58:17

I was under the impression that the sail was off. I guess not. I don't know about splitting the extrusion because I'm not familiar with it. Looking at the photo I would try standing on the bottom clue of the sail then put a block of wood against the bottom of the extrusion and hammer upward. If it moves then slide it all down and stand on the sail again then hammer upward again. It might be an inch or two at a time but the more sail you get out of the track there will be less friction. If they are going to replace the tape I would use silicone spray. It slipperier than sailcoat or a dry lube.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

vdotmatrix
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2018 : 20:33:14

Yeah, it has been nightmare. We actually did that with a small hammer and tapped it back even...we managed to crack the foil today....so tommorow we are going to see if we can just peel the the back of the foil off the sail and remove the sail that way....does anyone know if we can just separate the foil further and completely all the way to the head?? All we need to do is get the sail off the forestay and we have been given the green light to cut the sail off the foil since they are going to replace the luff tape anyway.....

quote:
Originally posted by islander

I was under the impression that the sail was off. I guess not. I don't know about splitting the extrusion because I'm not familiar with it. Looking at the photo I would try standing on the bottom clue of the sail then put a block of wood against the bottom of the extrusion and hammer upward. If it moves then slide it all down and stand on the sail again then hammer upward again. It might be an inch or two at a time but the more sail you get out of the track there will be less friction. If they are going to replace the tape I would use silicone spray. It slipperier than sailcoat or a dry lube.

Edited by - vdotmatrix on 07/13/2018 20:35:02

vdotmatrix
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2018 : 21:58:21

will it be hard to remove the damaged extrusion ( foil)? Do we just pull the halves apart?

vdotmatrix
Navigator

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USA
139 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2018 : 08:17:08

it was difficult but we separated the foil and used a small crowbar and pulled from the bottom and zippered it as the thing lowered to the head...PCV is sharp.

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