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RAD Dad
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/14/2005 : 16:19:33

Has anyone upgraded the main sail on the Catalina 25 to something with more performance, like one of those power head sails, or full batten sails?
Looking at getting new main sail and was wondering if I could get something with more power. Tried sailing with main alone once, under a heavy breeze, and it felt like it had no power on its own.

I've checked out the sail warehouse and they have a few different options, OEM, Full Batten, and a Power head sail.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2005 : 17:06:43

Hey Rad

Do a search of our archives and you will see that lots of us have bought the Ullman loose footed full batten main, from Gary Swenson with Ullman ventura and are very happy with it. I know I am. It's built very tough.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2005 : 18:53:49

Rich, welcome to the forum. You'll find plenty of assists here.
Stay around.

Paul.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2005 : 20:43:12

North sails are hard to beat, and you can usually get pretty good discounts in the off-season or at a good boat show. Tell your sailmaker where you plan to sail and how you plan to use your sails. It will influence the design of your sails and the choice of sailcloth.

You sound like you are, or want to become, fairly serious about racing. If so, I suggest you talk to your sailmaker about a racing shelf foot and flattening reef. I've used them for 25 years, and the shelf foot makes the sail very powerful, and the flattening reef makes it adaptable to varying conditions. Most modern sailors are using a loose-footed mainsail, but most serious racers are still using a footed mainsail with a shelf-foot. Before you order sails from any sailmaker, talk to a sailmaker at North and ask for his recommendations. Ask his opinion about a loose-footed main vs. a shelf-footed mainsail. Also ask his opinion about a full-battened main vs. a mainsail with some other configuration of battens. You'll also want your sail to have a grommet for a cunningham. Ask your sailmaker for the name of the manfacturer of the dacron sailcloth that will be used, and the weight of the sailcloth. Don't forget to have your sail numbers put on your sail. (They're often required for racing.) The Catalina insignia is not necessary. Ask your sailmaker's recommendation for the number of reefs. One should be enough if you sail on an inland lake, but two is probably better for coastal cruising.

Although I like North sails, and others like other sailmakers, any sailmaker should be able to build a sail with any of these options. A discount sailmaker can even build a reasonably good racing sail, if you tell them what you want, but the sailcloth won't be as durable. If you only plan to keep the boat 4-5 years, it should be fine, though.

But, don't expect too much of any mainsail. The jib is the principle driving sail on the C25. The mainsail is an important adjunct to the jib, but it'll never feel really powerful by itself.

Edited by - on

JV
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2005 : 23:05:37

I have a custom made main that came with my '83 tall rig C25. The boat was originally owned by a sailmaker and the main is shelf footed. I would like to know your opinion as to when to use the shelf and when to reef it. Should the outhaul be repositioned when reefing the shelf foot?
Thanks

Edited by - on

John P
Captain

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USA
324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2005 : 07:24:37

I know I may pick up some new rags this winter. Although my Jib is in OK shape, the Main has seen better days. And I think a nice upgrade to a Jib with a window in it would be great. I have a hard time seeing what/who is below me when the jib is out 100%

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2005 : 09:29:25

One thing you should be aware of if you get a "power head" or a full- roach main. It will hang up on your backstay in ligh air. It's irritating because you have to get out of the cockpit and shake it loose.

You should also be aware that the extra sail area is significant at the top of the sail. You may want to consider two reefs. I use my second reef in winds approaching 20 to 25mph to keep from rounding up, although heel is still significant.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2005 : 10:13:27

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would like to know your opinion as to when to use the shelf and when to reef it. Should the outhaul be repositioned when reefing the shelf foot?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">The shelf foot generates power in light air, but, as the windspeed increases, the laminar flow of air over it's deeply curved surface can't stay attached. When the air flow separates from the surface of the sail, turbulence is created, and the sail stalls.

Lets talk about beating to windward in light air, because that's where the shelf foot helps the most. I start off using the shelf foot in light air. As the boatspeed increases to somewhere between 3-4 knots, I gradually start to increase the tension on the outhaul, to reduce the curvature of the sail a bit, so that the faster-moving air can remain attached to the surface of the sail.

Your mainsail probably has telltales attached to the leech of the sail. When those telltales are streaming reasonably smoothly, they tell you that the air is remaining attached to the surface of the sail until it flows off the leech of the sail. Therefore, as the windspeed increases, you should watch those telltales to decide how much tension to apply to the outhaul in any given windspeed. Apply just enough tension to cause those telltales to stream.

Your mainsail probably has a grommet for a flattening reef set in the leech, about a foot above the boom. When my boat (a C25 tall rig) started to become overpowered (excessive heeling and tiller pressure), I moved the outhaul to the flattening reef grommet and pulled in the flattening reef. In those wind conditions, the standard rig C25 heels slightly less than the tall rig, and I believe the flattening reef reduces the tall rig's heeling moment and tiller pressure enough to help the tall rig stay competitive with the standard rig boat.

Recently, I talked briefly with a Quantum sailmaker about a new racing mainsail for my new (to me) C&C 35, and he recommended a shelf-footed main, but he said sailmakers are not recommending flattening reefs anymore. Apparently, you just use your outhaul to increase tension along the foot of the sail, and that's enough to flatten it as much as necessary. If the boat becomes overpowered, you tuck in your first full reef. I like having a flattening reef, probably because I used one for so many years and thought it was helping, but who knows? Maybe it was a figment of my imagination. It's possible that the benefit was so slight that it was insignificant. I'm sure of one thing. When you use the flattening reef, it changes the angle of the boom, and that is bound to increase turbulence along the foot of the sail. The question is whether the overall effect of having slightly less sail area and a flatter shape with increased turbulence along the foot hurts or helps?

Sometimes I would pulled in the flattening reef, and then use the cunningham to pull the cunningham grommet down to the boom. In effect, that was like having a short (one foot) reef. That reduced the sail area slightly more than when I used the flattening reef alone, and since the boom was at the correct angle, it didn’t cause turbulence along the foot of the sail. That configuration seemed to be more efficient, and worked best to keep my tall rig competitive with standard rigs in those conditions. It helped keep the boat on her feet without tucking in the first full reef, and giving up more sail area.

After you have tucked in the flattening reef, or a short reef, as the windspeed continues to increase, the decision to tuck in your first full reef is the same as with any other mainsail.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/15/2005 11:02:44

JV
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2005 : 13:49:22

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll experiment in a few days. Out here in Montana we get wind that is quite variable in both speed and direction. I think a tall rig with flattening reef and two reefs is the way to go here.

Edited by - on

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