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is catalina 25 really trailerable?

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kicking tires
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/30/2005 : 07:55:33

I have been looking for the right boat for us. Because I don't get out as much as I would like, I want to avoid slip fees. However, I would still like to be able to go for a day and not spend the whole time launching and rigging. Typically, we would go for a night or a weekend.

Had sort of settled on the mac25 when I saw an ad for a catalina 25. I don't know anything about the catalina 25. How does it compare to the mac25 in trailerability? quality? comfort? sailing characteristics? Speed is not a real issue. (am not interested in water ballast mac)

I have limited sailing experience, inland lakes only. Learned on dingies, m-16, hobbie and boston whaler. Also a 60's columbia 23 ocean racer.

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Edited by - on

kicking tires
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 08:17:04

Sorry, I should have said that the boats I have considered have been pre 86. 80 catilina.
thanks again.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 09:02:28

Hi there,

IMHO it is hard to find a better bargain than a C-25. They are built like tanks, they sail great, you can still get parts, and there is a lot of other support (like this Association/Forum

) ... I love my boat!

Having said that, if your intention is to trailer it <u>every</u> time you sail, I think it would quickly become a pain to rig/launch/derig ... it is a hand-full. You'll also need a very beefy towing vehicle ... the C-25 can easily exceed 6000 lbs of towing weight.

Two things come to mind. First, you might find a marina in your area that has "dry slips" ... for MUCH less money, some marinas have an area where you can park your boat, fully rigged, and all you have to do is hook up to the trailer and launch it (no rigging/derigging involved). Second, if your family isn't too big, a C-22 might be a good option ... they are much easier to store, tow, rig/derig, etc. and many thousands of them have been built.

Where do you live? What's your first name?

Good luck with your search!

Edited by - on

thaind
Navigator

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Canada
145 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 09:03:09

What type of keel and mast are you talking about? They are all trailerable in any sense of the word, but to differing degrees. When my Fin keel Tall rig is on the trailer the water line is nearly eight feet above the ground meaning using my truck winch or a trailer extension, and then finding a ramp with that amount of depth. An "A" frame can be constructed to raise and lower the mast more easily, and with a Tall Rig this is needed without more friends than I have, but it is not a ten minute job.

If I were planing to go through this process on a regular basis I would probably prefer the C22. Since I have a marine slip instead, and have immediate access to sailing I am more likely to spend longer amount of time on my boat and a C25 FK TR was my choice.

Edited by - thaind on 08/30/2005 14:06:08

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 09:05:04

Okay Tires, here's the "low-down" on trailerability.

Yes. The C25 is trailerable. But, it is about the top limit for most trailer sailers. The design weight for the boat is around 4,500 lbs. But the hired hands at the factory often erred on the side of over building. So, the boats often came from the factory weighing more than 5,000 lbs. When you include the trailer, engine, sails, extra gear, food, water, et al; the tow often exceeds 7,000 lbs. I know of two C25s that exceed 9,500 lbs and the trailers have three axels instead of two.

To safely tow all that weight, you will need a 3/4 ton or one ton vehicle. Probably with a 5 liter or larger engine and all wheel drive. If you are figuring on towing a C25 with a 15 year old Nissan or Toyota 1/4 ton pickup - - - forget it.

As far as quality, comfort, and sailing characteristics (as well as resale value) IMHO get the Catalina. Construction, fittings & hardware, are all superior.

BTW: The C25s are available in three different keel designs - swing keel, fixed wing keel, and/or fixed fin keel. Most owners like the fixed fin's sailing qualities better than the others. But, there's no question that the swing or the wing keel (which require about 2 feet less water to float the boat off the trailer) are easier to launch and get back on a trailer.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 10:21:58

Hmmm... Looking for a boat that can be daysailed, yet have some basic amenities suitable for overnight/weekends or having a nice luncheon out of the rain?

My short list of inexpensive boats in that category. Smaller = less comfort.

Potter 19
Catalina 22
Venture 23 (Mac built "Venture of Newport") I had one of these and loved it.
Mac 24, 25
Mac 26C (The 'Classic' model, not the motorsailor)
Catalina 25

The basic rigging tasks on ALL these boats are exactly the same.

Mount Engine (can be eliminated for short-distance trailering) (ground man or both)
Install Windex (eliminated for short-distance trailering) (ground man)
Untie, set and Raise Mast (deck man, then add ground man for lift)
Install and tension stays (deck man helps set, then ground man finishes)
Mount Boom (deck man does this while ground man finishes stays from ladder)
Remove Mast Crutch and Set Rudder (ground man)
Rig Fenders and Docklines (deck man)
Extend Tongue on Trailer... one backs truck, one handles tongue. Launch.

Rig headsail while motoring to sailing area.
Sail.

With two people in good physical shape, hustling along and 'well organized' you can rig a C25 for launch in 40 minutes. Yes, I've done it. The key is each person knowing what they need to do... and working independently on the prep tasks wherever they can. One person has a primary focus on the 'deck' tasks, the other on the 'ground' tasks... Each has the proper stuff handy (pliers, coter pins, yada)

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 11:44:31

Hi, Kicking. ( I got a little chuckle from that)

I personally don't care to trailer. In the N'east launch ramps bear a striking resemblance to war zones. Who needs it? But then I'm reminded of a former member/officer of this club who trailered her C25 behind a motor home with a car in tow as a family dinghy. Kinda the little boat that could. Different strokes for different folks.

Christy Morgan was her name. What ever became of her?

Val on Calista # 3936

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 14:22:53

The water ballast Macs are about the easiest thing to trailer that I know of. They sail reasonably well. They are fast to rig and unrig. The mast is light enough to walk up.
Quality is not as good as Catalina. Comfort is not as good as Catalina. Catalina will sail rings around the Macs.
However as mentioned above our 1987 wing keel is 8300 lbs on its trailer. The Mac is less than 3000. A lot of people that I know sail waterballast Macs and are happy with them. Dave

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 16:13:11

Here's my opinion. The Catalina 25 is about the largest trailerable sailboat you can get. It is easily pulled by a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck. The swing and wing are best for this, but even a fin can be trailered.

What is not realistic is expecting to trailer the boat for daysailing. Unless you are at least spending the night or weekend I don't think its worth it. If you are planning to trailer to the harbor, rig, launch, sail, get back on the trailer, take the rig down, stow everything, and go home, I hope you like spending the day on the launch ramp.

Now some of our owners do it and have gotten very efficent at the process.

I don't think it is worth it to try to do all that in a day. If that is your goal, then get a Potter 19 or a Catalina 22.

The Catalina 25 offers you the ability to trailer long distances for major adventures you couldn't do any other way. How about going to Florida for a sail to the Bahamas, then stopping in Upper Michigan to go to the North Channel, and up to Vancouver for cruising the Puget Sound? The C25 can do all of that and more. Plus you can live aboard for an extended time in comfort, have tons of fun sailing, take on tough coastal crusing winds and weather (and enjoy it). All without spending very much money.

That said, I keep mine in a slip full time, I sail nearly every day year-round, and I can get to the dock and be underway in 5 minutes. I guess I am about as efficent at getting going and getting everything put away as anyone. I know that the boat can go nearly anywhere and to prove it, check out my web page

www.indiscipline.org

Edited by - on

kicking tires
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 16:44:34

What a helpful group! thank you for all the feedback. No, I don't want to spend a day at the ramp. However, I will check into the dry slip option at the local marina. I will also start checking into 22s. I like what I have read and heard about the Catalinas. I also appreciate the lack of mac bashing done in response to my inquiry, that shows class. I like the accomodations afforded by a 25 footer over a 22 and (failing a dry slip option) it looks like a mac may be my next boat. Two things are certain - 1 I appreciate your thoughts and 2 my next boat won't be my last. Thanks again.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 16:52:26

I agree that the C25 is not easy to tow and launch, but the one thing that makes it much easier is a serious tow vehicle, with 4WD and a big engine. They help you get the boat and trailer deeper in the water, which makes it easier to launch and retrieve. A friend hooked my trailer to his diesel powered Dodge Ram with 4WD and duallies, and we floated my tall rig fin keel onto the trailer and pulled it out without even using a tongue extension. He made the whole process look easy. Another thing that helps is if you get the standard rig, rather than the tall rig. Raising the mast of a tall rig is somewhat more difficult.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/30/2005 16:54:16

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2005 : 17:19:56

Mac 25 waterballast boats seem to have happy owners. Mac 26 X,Y,Z,M,H,Q, or whatever do not sail, they also don't motor very well despite something between 40 and 400 Horsepower. Dave

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2005 : 11:39:33

we have a couple of those mac 26s with the dual kick up rudders here in Mission Bay. The owners run them around without even having the mast installed! I saw one last weekend heading out into the sea with the mast still sitting horizontal on the bow pulpit and stern pulpit. The other one does not have a mast or any kind of sailing gear at all. Its converted to a pure motorboat. One passed me when I was motorsailing to Catalina. I was doing 5 knots under main and Honda. He had all his sails furled and was doing about 12 or 13 knots and went by in a cloud of spray.

What I tell my power boat friends is "You are trading money for miles, I am trading my time for miles". Gas at the fuel dock here is now $3.75 per gallon and going UP. Everyone's going to be sailing soon.

Consider the cost of owning and operating a suitable tow vehicle, plus your time spent on the ramp, trailer maintenance, fuel for towing, insurance, etc. and the cost of dry, mast-up storage or slips starts to seem reasonable.

If you're going to go the dry, mast up route, or the slip, GET THE C25 if you want to sail well.

My slip costs $275/month. With bottom cleaning, insurance, annual bottom painting, fixing broken things, fuel, and other costs, its about $350/month to own the boat. Thats not counting sails (I have 3 mains, 5 headsails and a spinnaker). I use the boat 20 days per month (or more). That comes out to it costs me $17 every time I take her out, and its worth every cent.

If you use your boat twice per month, thats $150 every time you take it out.

If you are not going to use it that much, you can always consider renting a boat. Here in Mission Bay a C25 or C250 is $45/hour.

Edited by - JimB517 on 08/31/2005 11:41:25

pjeffarch
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2005 : 14:42:43

No Mac25 bashing here- I owned one, learned to sail on it, and loved it...but then I sailed on a friend's C25, and it was bye bye to the Mac, hello Catalina. I sold the Mac, bought a Catalina '79 swing keel, and its the best thing I did. You could try the same approach.
By the way, the Mac25 I sold is still in my marina, being sailed happily by its new owner.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2005 : 16:28:49

>"No Mac25 bashing here- "

Agree... really nothing wrong with the Mac/Venture line, when sailed within their design limitations. (Bay and Lake).

Venture 17 and 21s were fast boats in their day.
Venture 23 is a very pretty boat... maybe best looking trailersailer made.
Mac 25 a nice daysailer/weekender
The 26 Classics are pretty quick in their favorite wind speeds. At that point they were starting to get the modern "clorox bottle look" but not too bad.

Then we get the 26X and 26M (motorsailers). These designs simply leave me cold. But heck, Roger really is a marketing genius and lots of people are buying them. Many (most?) are not really used as sailboats but are floating RV's...

I will admit the M (latest model) looks a lot better than the first motorsailor.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2005 : 19:51:32

I used to sail from the Sarasota Sailing Squadron, which has about two hundred boats on trailers, mast up, mostly rigged and ready to go during the season. Also this is an active racing club and hosts sunfish and other small boat regattas that attract large numbers of participants. I wholehartedly agree with all who have suggested that for regular trailering to a site, erecting and rigging, launching and recovering, for daysails or overniters, the CAT 25 is not quite appropriate, although I am sure someone will say they do it all the time. The ramp at Sarasota SS was very active, and before I bought I spent a good deal of time observing the procedures, both good and bad, anf the various types of boats. To the ones listed above I would add the Tanzer 22, O'Day 23, Com-pac19, and 23, Spindrift, Hunter 23, and there are some others I forget. I met a fellow that trailered his Compac all over and lived in it as a camper in campgrounds while doing so, pretty smart. I think basically the choice you have to make is whether to go for a big, strong, heavy boat like C25 which is quite seaworthy (within sensible limitations) or to consider a smaller boat more easily trailerable. I towed a 22 foot ballasted shoal keel boat from Fla to Pennsylvania with a standard station wagon, no problem (wagon rode better, actually).
Fair winds, Ron Orion #2343 SW FL

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2005 : 19:58:20

PS with above, I forgot to mention that in Sarasota the Catalina 22's were ubiquitous, the most successful trailer boat evr built, I believe between fifteen and twenty THOUSAND were sold, you gotta be doing something right, Go sailing either way, Ron in Venice, FL

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2005 : 01:03:54

I currently dysail my C25 from a boat lift back of my house, and occasionally leave it in the water and wet sail it. Three or four times a year I take down the rig and haul it for bottom work and maintenance. With all the equipment on hand and skilled help, I have never rigged the boat in less than two hours start to finish (including beding on sails, setting the reffing lines etc.) Doing it many times in a season might help you get it done faster...but 40 minutes? Maybe on fast forward.

Others have suggested the C22, and it is a great boat, much more practical for trailer sailing than the 25, which lends itself to trailering to a place where it will be sailed for at least several days in a row. Look at the Com-Pac and Precisions lines, too. They have boats in the 19 to 26 foot range designed for trailering. Someone else suggest the West Wright Potter 19, a great and seaworthy little boat.

Ron--let's get together at some point, neighbor. I have moved from Martha's Vineyard (Boo Hoo!) to Punta Gorda. Brought the C25 with me for the time being (until the house is repaired from Charley).

I know little or nothing about Macgregors (so I should keep quiet, right?), but the looks of the newer ones would be enough to put me off.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2005 : 08:52:44

For the last three years I trailer my 89 wing down to the Florida Keys for 2 to 3 weeks sailing. I live in Knoxville. It's about 980 miles one way to my favorite marina in Islamorada. Earlier this year I went all the way to key west in order to be closer to my final destination, Loggerhead Key, west of Dry Tortugas. I have a half ton 4wd 1999 Chevy Silverado. I have an all aluminum and stainless steel trailer rated for 9600 lbs gross, with 4 wheel stainless steel disc brakes on torsion bar axles

So I guesse that C25's are trailerable

If the Bahahamas trip doesn't materialize, I'll be heading to the Keys in Late February next year.

Saving now for gas money.

Edited by - on

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