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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

self tending jibs, what how, why, when?

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Initially Posted - 04/27/2002 : 12:12:29

When I'm absolutely tired of my work , I head to a marina and "wander" for an hour or two. Yesterday I was in Stockton Ca. and "wandered" the Stockton Yacht Club docks. Stockton, being on a reiver delta, is made up of many small waterways, all of which eventually lead to San francisco bay. That being said, I noticed that almost every sailboat had a self tending jib, both 30-40 footers and even the 20-30 footers, all of them! I realized since these boats sailed narrow waterways ( some only 50 yards wide or less, that the self tacking jib was a blessing, since these guys may tack every 3-5 minutes to get to bigger waters.
Here lies the question. Is this system good, great, or not very useful? Some used a jib boom and hanked on sails, some used no boom and roleer furling. I love the concept....What are the drawbacks and inefficiencies of this type of system. I plumb the depths of your bottomless knowledge , oh sailing compatriots of mine....

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/27/2002 : 14:46:53

The one obvious difficulty with the system is that it limits you to a jib whose foot doesn't exceed the distance from the stem to the mast, or a 100% jib. Often we require jibs of larger capacity notable in light air conditions.
A self tending jib is a great advantage when ones intent is to kick back and take the easiest tack. I've often wished that I had such a setup, but it doesn't happen with roller furled headsails.
With a boat so configured it's necessary only to stear the boat, the booms handle the sails address once adjusted.

Val on "CALISTA" # 3936 '83 Tall Wing

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
When I'm absolutely tired of my work , I head to a marina and "wander" for an hour or two. Yesterday I was in Stockton Ca. and "wandered" the Stockton Yacht Club docks. Stockton, being on a reiver delta, is made up of many small waterways, all of which eventually lead to San francisco bay. That being said, I noticed that almost every sailboat had a self tending jib, both 30-40 footers and even the 20-30 footers, all of them! I realized since these boats sailed narrow waterways ( some only 50 yards wide or less, that the self tacking jib was a blessing, since these guys may tack every 3-5 minutes to get to bigger waters.
Here lies the question. Is this system good, great, or not very useful? Some used a jib boom and hanked on sails, some used no boom and roleer furling. I love the concept....What are the drawbacks and inefficiencies of this type of system. I plumb the depths of your bottomless knowledge , oh sailing compatriots of mine....

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Val Bisagni

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Bristle
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Response Posted - 04/27/2002 : 17:38:06

You can have roller furling and self-tending, as is the case with many staysails on cutter rigs. A boom is pretty important though--without it, you have very little control over sail shape since the sheeting angle is virtually straight down from the clew. The aforementioned Alerion 28 ($100K thread) has the new Hoyt boom that attaches at the bow and pivots back and forth. (Check their ads in Sail or the other mags.)

As Val said, the main issue is overlap--nobody's figured out how to do that. But I'm working on it! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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jandrus
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Response Posted - 04/27/2002 : 19:48:56

When I didn't have an engine on my boat for a while I found myself short tacking a lot - here's the self tacking rig I created. It is not the most efficient way to sail and doesn't result in the nicest sail shape I've every seen but it works, its easy, its temporary, and cheap.

I rolled my headsail out to figure out where 100% is. With the clew just clear of the mast I marked the furler control line. I attached a light low strech line from the the middle stantion on one side to the other. Use snap shackles so you don't have a tripping hazard there all the time. A block runs on that line and is shackled to a line with is shackled to the sail. Total cost - $10.

When you want to use the system, set up the line across the deck. This is the travler. Snap the line from the travler block to the sail. Set off on one tack. Use the furling line to roll in a bit of headsail until you have the desired tension on the clew. Go sailing.

Its not brilliant. The sail shape is never perfect and the lead angle is not quite right, but the boat goes to windward without fuss and without adjusting lines.

Justin

c25 #1942 s/v tako kichi

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Ed Montague
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Response Posted - 04/28/2002 : 01:00:40

Gary, My boat was sailed extensively in the Stockon Delta by the previous owner. She came with the self tending jib setup. Also called a club footed or delta rigged jib. I tried to use it a few times and it was very easy to see why those of us who don't need to tack every few minutes don't want it. First off, a 100% jib is too large. Remember the forward stays are slightly ahead of the mast. The end of the jib boom would get caught on the forward stay when tacking. Remember that the jib can't be as long as the boom so the contol lines can pull the sail flat or let it out for more shape. I would guess that the sail I had for the setup was only 90%. Second, that darned boom was a real trip hazard and if you or a guest were forward when you tacked there was no place to hide or duck. The damned thing caught me on the ankle once. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> I saw a few new boats at the Pacific Sail Expo last week with this setup and wondered how well they worked. Now that I have more experience maybe I will reinstall and give it another try,............ naw.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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Bristle
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834 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2002 : 09:05:51

Ed: Sounds like Justin's approach solves some of your problems... I may try that some day--not expecting to be able to flatten the jib much unless I roll it down to about 70%.

Justin: What do you do when you're off the wind with that arrangement? It looks like you can't sheet it out... (That's one thing the boomlet allows.)

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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jandrus
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Response Posted - 04/28/2002 : 10:54:54

You're correct that you wind up with a smaller than 100% headsail with my rig, but its enough to short tack you out of the marina or fairway when necessary. I forgot to mention when I say tension roller furling line you're tensioning it against the wind - pull it too hard and all you'll do is center the travler and make a small sail.

This rig doesn't go downwind - downwind I'd just come in under main or occasionally bare poles.

Justin

c25 #1942 s/v tako kichi

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Douglas
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Response Posted - 04/29/2002 : 12:11:51

The self tending or club footed jib system is a good system for those who wish to eliminate the need to tend the jib lines often. Its a very old system and its use can be seen on such designs a Sparkman & Stephens ext. Its almost always on a cutter rig or schooner. Its great if you are single handing. The only draw back is it limits the size of the jib. It serves it purpose on the vesels that can use it but its not what one would normaly use on a sloop.

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