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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Speed and wind

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Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/22/2005 : 21:23:07

I went out sailing today on my c250WK. It was nice eary on and the wind was building till it reached 20 with gusts to 30! I have a question about wind speed and boat speed. I don't believe it pertains to my model boat so much as maybe the size.

Here is the question. As the wind speed reached it's peak (scary white caps) I found that the boat did the opposite of what I would have thought. On a close-hauled run the speed began decreasing especially as it became gustier. After reefing the main (it was really starting to blow!) I expected to be able to let out more jib and as I did, it seem to slow me more. Are the sideways forces working on the sails and hull more, causing the boat to slide sideways and slow? In lighter winds as a gust comes along; you really scoot! Not today. It was alot of work to sail upwind and took alot longer than I thought. It was fun though!

I lost my watch and a one day old pair of $70 sunglasses! I'L never learn (got my $10 sunglasses left now).

Turk

www.turk.mysailboatblog.com
2003 C250 WK #663
Northeast Ohio
Mosquito Lake/Lake Erie

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2005 : 22:02:18

Heeling slows the boat....keep it flat. Also, waves....especially to windward. Every time you slam into that little water wall it knocks the wind out of you...as a figure of speech. You don't say where you are sailing, but the short chop, less than a boat length apart, 3 or 4 or more feet of a large lake or bay will cost you many knots.

Soo, the best thing to do is to crack of a few, say ten or fifteen, degrees, keep the boat moving, flat and take the waves at a slightly larger angle. (A lot dryer too)

Now, beam reach or better is a scream in 30 knots......

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618 )
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

Edited by - Oscar on 09/22/2005 22:03:05

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2005 : 23:44:05

Yep, lots of wave action and short chop. I had sailed 7 miles to the north (downwind) and was anxious to get back. Cracking off 15 degrees - I would still be out there! I get your point though.

I sail on Mosquito lake, second largest lake in Ohio (northeast Ohio) about 1.5 mile wide and 10 miles long. It is very flat here so we get good wind and a lot of good sailing, this year especially. We have racing every monday night thru the summer with from 20 to 28 sailboats participating. Sail out of Cortland conservation Club.

Turk

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Oscar
 Heeling slows the boat....keep it flat. Also, waves....especially to windward. Every time you slam into that little water wall it knocks the wind out of you...as a figure of speech. You don't say where you are sailing, but the short chop, less than a boat length apart, 3 or 4 or more feet of a large lake or bay will cost you many knots.

Soo, the best thing to do is to crack of a few, say ten or fifteen, degrees, keep the boat moving, flat and take the waves at a slightly larger angle. (A lot dryer too)

Now, beam reach or better is a scream in 30 knots......

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618 )
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2005 : 08:50:00

Turk, We get alot of that fun stuff out on Tampa Bay quite often. Then, to top things off, you get that tide ripping at you...going nowhere really fast

. But that's ok...heeling is the fun
part

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2005 : 09:20:37

I was out on Lake Winnipesaukee yesterday in similar conditions. Don't usually see white caps until 15 kts and there were plenty of them. 1 to 2 foot waves on the Broads and Sanders Bay as well. My Capri gave me no trouble pointing, but I was reefed and didn't have the main up tight so there was a lot of twist at the top. Much is probably attributable to the difference in the boats as well. Swimmer doesn't seem to notice the waves much unless I'm already going slow, but in yesterdays wind, I don't think much of the hull was in the water anyway! - I even broke the reef sheave in the end of the boom, granted, it was old, but when it shattered it scared the "u no what" out of me, sounded like a gun shot!

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2005 : 09:24:56

Ah yes....the "what the ..... was that?"......BP-180 over 100/120BPM effect....

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2005 : 10:52:37

In racing conditions, not crusing, The goal in heavy winds is to Keep the sails flat. You don't want the sails to be baggy at all. The Jib should be trimmed in all the way hard. This will give you the speed that you are looking for when going to windward. Also tighten the halyards to the sails. If you have hanks, you want to pull out all of the scallops in the luff. The main should be broght in as tight as possible, and play the traveler in the puffs to correct the heal of the boat. The top batten should be parrell to the boom, or twisted off slightly to the lee. If you start healing too much luff into the gust, think of an "S" course, sliding back and forth playing the wind in the sails. The outhaul should be really tight to flatten the foot of the main, Cunningham also should be really tight to flatten the luff of the main. The flatter the sails the better speed that you will gain by letting the sail act like a foil. Two weeks ago we were racing in heavy winds 22 to 26 knots, with gust in the thirty's. The waves were 1 to 2 feet tall, and white caps on the back edges of the waves. Our rail was burried into the water, 30 deg. of heel, and water slashing up and over the sides of the boat @ every wave. It was a blast..... One thing I would like to point out is to be carefull not to backwind the jib on a tack. This took us and made us round the boat up almost into a broach. The fordeck was going around the mast, and was thrown accross the boat heading overboard, when he caught himself with the shrouds. My wife had deep rope burns from the Spinnaker sheet, we had a graet time with the boat, it was our first regatta in her, and we took second place in our fleet, and best boat of the Regatta....
The more you practice in strong winds the more comfortable you will get in the feel of the helm, the trim of the sails, and the heel of the boat.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2005 : 16:11:21

CS gave you the key... In heavy air, if your sail shape is full (not flat), you're capturing the wind so that it pushes you more leeward and heels you more--neither is good for boat speed. If your sails are flat, they direct the wind rapidly off the leach--more like an airplane wing and less like a parachute. Moving the traveler to leeward helps the mainsheet pull the boom down better. All the other things CS mentions help, too.

In light air, the reverse it true. You want full sails, and you don't want to sail as high upwind. Move the traveler to windward so it pulls the boom at more of an angle, ease everything a little, sail a little lower (speed can make up for distance), and let the sails capture and hold the air. Also, in very light air ("cat's paws"), do whatever you can to induce some heel--it helps maintain sail shape and angle so they'll make the most of each puff.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/23/2005 16:13:36

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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