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Jack Lines for Toddler on board

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Kelly
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/01/2002 : 19:20:59

Want to rig jack lines to tether my preschool age son on board. Don't really want to run them full length bow to stern (don't intend for the little guy to be that adventurous yet) so I'm thinking of just running some lines in the cockpit. Any advice on where best to run the lines and how to afix them??

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 19:29:15

Kelly - have you thought about using the netting? Kids have a habit of tangling themselves in tethers.
Derek (who has 9 grandkids...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)

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Kelly
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 19:53:36

I have thought about that, but my three year old has a thing for jumping in water - i want to tie him on board!!!

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 20:08:49

Kelly:

I use a life jacket, a tether and lifeline netting and myself (close by), to help keep my daughter onboard.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1d705b3127cce9b69fcb3a6c50000003410" border=0>

If you go with lifeline netting, I recommend Seattle Marine http://www.seamarsports.com/rail.html -- the quality of their stuff is much better than what I found at West Marine or BoatUS (and it's less expensive).

I have not rigged jack lines, though. In the picture above, the tether is simply clipped around the mast. While in the cockpit, I clip her tether onto a loop which I installed just above the top step of the companionway ladder. This allows her to go from the cockpit to the cabin (and back) without unclipping her. A simple overhand knot or two in the tether keeps it at an acceptable length.

As Derek explains, she does get tangled in the tether. But I find that is a small price to pay for her safety. She is also quickly learning how to become untangled. As my second daughter is now learning to stand, I foresee more fun with tangled tethers as I add another one to the mix.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1d705b3127cce9b69f345679c0000004410" border=0>

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - richardg on 05/01/2002 20:16:14

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2002 : 20:16:34

I also think netting would be a good choice. I think the most important safety item concerning kids(aside from a good lifejacket) is education. My kids knew from the time they could stand that there were rules to be followed when on or near the boat(no running on the docks, no leaning over the side, no standing on the seats, no horseplay,...etc) and we always had two adults(my wife and I) so one of us was able to tend to the kids while the other controlled the boat. If your kids are anything like mine, they will be going between cockpit and cabin constantly, with the majority of the time spent playing in the cabin or V-berth so a tether might be somewhat of a bother. When the kids were small(3-5) we would put their life jackets on them when they went swimming in a pool so they could get the feel for them, and also to be sure that the lifejackets functioned properly.

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 13:57:02

It was a little controversial at the time, but my son had "drownproofing lessons" at the local YMCA when he was about 6 months old. (Some people thought it was too traumatic an experience for small children, but we thought drowning would be even more traumatic.) We felt that, because of our sailing, he was going to be around water a lot, and he would be safer if he could learn to cope with that environment. They didn't really teach infants to swim, but they taught them to float and to tread water and to breathe and keep their heads above water. When he started to become mobile, we used a life jacket and water wings and safety harness on him, but we worried that he might unclip his life jacket or that his water wings might deflate. If all else failed, he became accustomed to having his head under water momentarily without panicking, and he was able to help himself until a grownup could get to him. Although he never had to "save himself," we felt the drownproofing lessons were well worthwhile. Incidentally, judging from the way he reacted, he loved his drownproofing lessons, and has never shown any sign of being traumatized or fearful of water.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 02:16:31

I added netting, and use life jackets and teathers for our 5 and 2 year old. Well that's there ages not not last season. Only the older one has goen out on the deck and he attaches himself to either the life lines or shrouds. Am thinking of adding a jack line too. the younger just kind of rolls around in the cabin. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> he doen't like it much. Exploring at dock in the boat is another story though.

Matt
EC Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK SR

Edited by - on

Marc Demaree
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2002 : 12:46:00

Kelly -

We are in the same position with a 2 year old on board and like you we plan on keeping our little one either in the cockpit or down below. We are planning on using a life jacket when the weather allows, but on real hot days in the summer I am sure that the jacket will be extremely uncomfortable and we would be worried about her getting overheated. When things get to hot we plan on using the tether.

I like Richard's idea of tying it off to the companionway ladder. The other idea was to run a jackline just above the floor of the cockpit with it tied off to just a regular C-Clamp (around teak molding) on the cabin hatch and probably to the end of the traveler on the stern. The idea is to keep it out of the adults way, or even remove it, when not needed.

Good luck and let me know if you have any revelations.

Marc
"Winsome"
25 TR FK

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2002 : 19:46:56

The difficulty with a jack line in the cockpit (temporary or not) is that the tether would have to be kept very short in order to prevent a very curious child from climbing over or through the life lines and/or pulpit. Having the end of the tether clipped just inside the companionway allows access to almost the entire cockpit without allowing her to fall overboard. I use a second tether anchor installed near the base of the compression post which allows full access to the cabin, head and v-berth (and also prevents her from entering the cockpit). Unclipping her tether from one anchor and clipping her into the other is a very quick and easy manuever. Two tethers will clearly add some chaos, but such is the price of parenthood.

While not exactly on the subject, on occasion we use the v-berth as the "timeout" area (e.g. "if you try to unclip your tether, you will have to take a timeout in the v-berth"). Now I don't know how many of you out there see the v-berth in such a negative way, but so far our oldest has bought into it ("Oh no -- not the v-berth!!!"). Probably won't be able to use that one too much longer. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2002 : 12:49:57

Marc you didn't say where you sail, what state?, but you need to be aware that 35 states have laws requiring life jackets to be worn by children while the vessel is under way. Many of them for children as old as 13. The Boat US magazine for May 2002 has an article regarding the effort by some to pass a federal law to require Coast Guard approved life vests on children under 13. This rule was withdrawn in February due to technicalities on how it would be enforced. It is expected that the new requirement may go into effect this coming Fall. I don't think jack lines can replace the use of a life jacket. Just something that you might want to ask the local authorities. I understand the heat issue, I don't like wearing a life jacket when it gets hot either. The jack line may be OK when you are anchored or otherwise not underway. What state are you in and I will see if you are on the list and the age requirement?

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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Marc Demaree
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2002 : 12:44:27

Ed -

I live in Massachusetts, which I anticipate is not going to allow her to be on board without a life jacket on. I'm glad you raised that point as I read about the idea of using jacklines instead of a life jacket in an older Canadian book that probably did not have the same requirements.

This could seriously crimp our plans on hot days in the summer as the Type II PFD's really cover alot of area on a toddler and I imagine would be very uncomfortable. I wonder if an automatically inflatable life jacket would work (or even be a good idea) for a toddler. It certainly would be more comfortable and may be the difference between sailing and not sailing on hot days.

Marc
"Winsome"
25 TR FK

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2002 : 13:23:24

Marc, Lucky you!!! Great sailing along the Mass. coast and of course Cape Cod. According to the US Boat article any child under the age of 12 must wear a Coast Guard approved PFD while the vessel is under way in the state of Mass.

As far as the inflateable goes, I would be surprised if one is made for a child that small and the fact that toddler PFD's are designed to put them on their backs with the head clear of the water. Note the photos that Richard has attached of his cutie. Netting, PFD, and a jackline, WOW that kid is as protected as she can be. Of course, nothing will protect your child as well a constantly watching them.

We spend alot of time on our lake connected to friends houseboats. Many have young children. These kids wear life jackets 100% of the time and I am talking about weekend long stays. They seem to adjust to it very well, even in the hottest time in the summer. Keep the PFD loose enough to allow air to circulate but snug enough so they can't slip out. Relax and be happy that you have a boat that you can take them with you. They will soon grow up and be gone.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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Kelly
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2002 : 21:06:09

Hi All!

Thanks for all of the great input. I installed two kack line anchors (through bolted in the side of the cockpit for the jack line and attach Griffin to the tether. As predicted - the tether has to be kep pretty short to avoid having him climb over the side - but this method does keep him from tangling so much - kind of like my dog on a zip line! I like the idea of the tether anchor by the cabin - might just try clipping the full length teather the the forward ring for the jack line.

Griffin's rig is pretty much just like Richard's daughter's - he has harness under jacket. We live in Tampa, Fl - but he doesn't seem to mind the jacket too much - I just strip him down underneath and cover him in sunscreen with lots of beverages. He too wears his jacket arouund to pool all the time - sometimes he just runs around the house in playing "boat."

I think netting will become a necessity eventually - he is very curious about the whole boat - not just the cockpit - and he loves the idea of reaching for the water!!

Kel

So how can I find out more about "drownproofing"?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2002 : 12:00:41

Kelly,

[quote]So how can I find out more about "drownproofing"?[quote]

My son had his drownproofing classes many years ago at the YMCA. I don't know whether it is still being offered, but suggest you ask your local YMCA and perhaps YWCA.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 18:59:23

Ed:

"the US Boat article any child under the age of 12 must wear a Coast Guard approved PFD while the vessel is under way"

I too read this article. I'm not sure exactly what "under way" is -- does this include "at anchor", mooring, etc.? Also, does this law require that a child "in an enclosed cabin" wear a PFD?

I think California state law currently allows a harness attached to a anchored tether on sailboats (in lieu of the PFD).
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2db34b3127cce9d9a33f93e320000003410" border=0>
While now I usually only attach the harness to the loop on the back of the PFD, I previously used the harness a lot more on our oldest before she hit one year old (before her internal temperature regulation system fully kicked in). After graduating to the grand old age of two, I think kids adjust to temperature extremes better than most adults.

To further help keep our infants cool, I installed a small fan near the top of the compression post which can be pointed in any direction.

I'll be currious to see how this federal law goes (including enforcement). But regardless, I'll stick to my current vigilant safety plan.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 20:10:20

According to the U.S. Coast Guard's website, the federal government recommends, but does not mandate who has to wear a PFD, that is left up to the individual states. The federal requirements only state how many, what type, and the general certification of the PFD's.

For more information, go to the Office of Boating Safety, USCG, Federal Requirements for PFD's at the link below.
http://www.uscgboating.org/reg/reg_fr_equipReq_PFD.asp

In Michigan, the requirements for PFD's are:

- Children less than 6 years of age must wear a Type I or Type II PFD when riding in the open deck area of a boat.

- Each person 12 years of age or older operating, riding on or being towed behind a personal watercraft (jet ski) must wear a Type I, Type II or Type III PFD (that is not an inflatable device).

- Each person less than 12 years of age riding or being towed, behind a personal watercraft (jet ski) must wear a Type I or Type II PFD.

In California, the law is,

"On a motorboat, sailboat, or vessel that is 26 feet or less in length, all persons 11 years of age or less must wear a Type I, II, or III Coast Guard-approved personal flotation device while that motorboat, sailboat, or vessel is underway. (Unless the child is restrained by a harness tethered to a sailboat or is in an enclosed cabin.)" 

The following link lists the PFD requirements for the rest of the states.
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/statepfd.htm

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 05/15/2002 20:15:50

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2002 : 02:59:49

Very good post Don.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Marc should be able to find out what is required in Mass. from your link. This is a good time of the year for this subject to come up. I pray that we all have a safe and accident free sailing season.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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