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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Mast lights

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LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/02/2002 : 08:43:09

I have a 1985 C25, SW, and had to reconnect the lights going up to the mast. I think I did it right as I can get the anchor (top) and the steaming (labeled Bow - it's the light halfway up the mast) to work. Last night after wrestling the mast back up (it's heavy!) I hooked the electrical connectors together and they work! Except....! When I turn both the steaming light and the anchor light on at the electrical panel at the same time they don't both light up. In all reality, they really shouldn't be on at the same time as you shouldn't be at anchor and steaming at the same time (at least not on purpose!). Does anyone know if it is wired that way, in that they can't both be on at the same time? Or do I have a short or something in there? Thanks!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 09:46:04

My mast lights will work in any combination. That's always an issue with previously owned boats - who knows who has worked on and done what to the wiring. The guy who had my boat must have been named Sparky!

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 12:53:33

They may be lighting up but soooo dim you cant see them. It depends a great deal on the size of wire you have used. Its hard for a 12 volt battery to push enough amps through a 14, 16, or 18 gage wire over a long distance. Longer distances require larger gages of wire to carry the amps. The recomended size for a 50' run would be 10 gage 12 minimum. If you used a single ground wire your trying to push almost twice the amps through what is probably to small of a wire. This is like cutting the power in half and the bulb filament may not get hot enough to glow. Another good cause for your condition is a corroded or dirty connection in the circuit not alowing the amperage to flow.

Edited by - on

Tony Dillon
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 14:19:09

I agree with Douglas, the previous owner of <i>Mental Floss</i> was an electrian and rewired her like a house, as a result most of her wiring is undersized. It really becomes evident when the cabin lights dim significantly with each additional one that is turned on. I purchased a copy of Don Casey's <i>Sailboat Electrics Simplified</i> and have begun the task of a total rewire. Boat US has an excerpt from Casey on thier web site regarding wire size that has a chart with minimum wire sizes for load and run length, just remember that run lenght needs to include both the hot and ground side. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/05.htm

Tony Dillon
Mental Floss

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 14:52:22

Don, I forgot to mention that Ancor (sp?) makes a marine grade wire where each strand has been tinned which makes it less susceptible to corrosion.

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

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LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2002 : 21:19:48

I just came in after checking it out again, and I wonder if the thoughts so far support the wire theory. I have me a handy-dandy multimeter (never owned one before - of course, I'm not sure I know how to use it yet!) and with both toggles on it shows that 12 volts is going to each, so I know the connector on the boat must be working. So the problem must be between the deck and the lights in the mast. It's always the parts that aren't reached very easily, isn't it? I hooked the wires up myself so therein may lie the problem. I guess what I need to do is to open the connector up again and relook at it again. But I was just wondering if there was something in there that didn't allow them to be on at the same time. I guess it ain't gonna be the easy way!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 09:38:51

This is one of those projects that once you have finished it, you'll say that wasn't so hard! By the way Dave, are you going to leave any projects for the future? Isn't about launch time in Michigan <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> ?

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

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LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 10:29:51

Steve, I hope once I get it done that it will work! I have really done a lot on the boat and pretty much covered all the projects that I wanted to complete. It was a pretty lengthy list, and I am looking forward to getting it in the water on May 11. That's Splash Day! I certainly hope it floats!

The only project I didn't totally finish yet is the gray water/marine holding tank. I still think it's leaking, but the last guy didn't empty it so I'm waiting to get it pumped out before I tackle anything with it. Using a sponge to it just doesn't sound appealing right yet! The big project for next year will be the bottom. I think I'm OK this year with the ablative (sp?) anti-fouling paint which came on it, but I'll need to do some research on it for next year.

My hunch is that this will be the only year I will put this much work into it. But, with dreaming about getting a boat like this literally for years I have had a lot of fun, and learned a lot, by working on it!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2002 : 11:38:40

Dave and Sharon, The projects never end!!!! As you settle in, you will need more comfort for the long weekends on board, more electronics so you will know where you are, better sail controls, bigger, cleaner, deeper motor,.................

Next week we install a new (found a used stove and oven combo at a sailor's flea market) in Yahoo so the food quality can be improved. I can taste the cheese cakes already. We have had our boat for 5 years and the projects keep coming. We may need to paint a new water line soon.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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dgabel
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2002 : 08:04:14

You may have done this already, but check the connection between the boat and the mast. You'd be surprised how fast those connections can corrode, and if they have you'll lose a lot more voltage there than in any length of wire. In my experience, most electrical problems in cars and boats are caused by the connectors. If the connection shows any corrosion, spiff it up with steel wool or a brass wire brush and see if that helps.

Edited by - on

Mike Vaccaro
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2002 : 09:32:21

Dave and Sharon,

There are several good corrosion preventative applications on the market. All of them displace water, thus protecting electrical connections. If you check the shelves of your local hardware or marine store, look for "Corrosion X" or Boeing "T-9" spray. A quick spray during assembly and every 90 days or so keeps the connections corrsion free. Another option is to assemble all components with dielectric silicone. This is available at marine an automotive supply stores. The silicone is a more "permanent" protectant and does interfere with removal/repair of components. The liquid applications are also approved for use on electronic components. One thing to consider is the nature of your wiring. Our older Catalinas were built before individually tinned-strand copper wiring was available. If an old, solid coper wires starts to corrode at one end, it will corrode within the wire sheath. Nothing you can do except shoot the wire with a volt-meter to see what kind of current it's capable of carrying. If it's still sufficient, you can continue to use it, but the wire will continue to degrade over time. The best solution is to run new wiring. One our '84 tall rig, this necessitated new wiring from the eletrical control panel aft of the galley all the way up the mast. If you're getting sufficient current at the deck plug, obviously the problem is further up the mast (most likely an actual connection on your steaming/foredeck or anchor light). Since we recently replaced all of the wiring, I thought I'd post the solution for any others that might have difficulty with this.

This project is made somewhat difficult by the way the original wires were molded into the coach roof fiberglass during assembly at the factory. There is no way to remove this wire. The solution we chose was to cut the original wires where they exited the deck and grind the small moulded mounting for the four-pin connector flush with the rest of the deck. We ran the new wiring adjacent to the bulkhead in the head and drilled a new hole up through the deck from down below with a long (12") drill bit. After noting the location of the new hole, we then made a "stayboard" (plastic) mounting that covered the old mounting (now ground flush) and the new hole. The plastic was drilled with four mounting holes (one at each corner) and a 1/2" hole for wire access (covered/sealed by the four-pin deck connector). The mounting plate is then sealed to the deck with an appropriate sealant. Now you have direct access to the bottom of the plug for future maintenance (there's always future maintenance, unless you sell the boat).

Best of luck!

Mike Vaccaro on the Swoose
84 TR/SK #4707

Edited by - on

Peregrino
Deckhand

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USA
17 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2002 : 13:23:58

Mike,
That was great information! I'm faced with the exact problem described in this thread. I was stumped as to how to replace the wiring leading through the deck to the 4-pin connector. Looks like Catalina never meant for this wiring to be replaced.

Sounds like the only feasible way to do this is to drill another hole just as you've done and use that.

Thanks for the very valuable information!

Steve Teeters
Cat25 '87, SK

Edited by - on

jm
Captain

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Canada
290 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2002 : 14:31:16

The first check is to see if you get a voltage reading from the battery to the main fuse panel. (crawl into the port locker with your meter and label each contact as read by someone looking at the panel from the galley.)

If no voltage, your battery is dead, or battery contacts are bad, or your three way switch is foiled, or the wire leads from battery to the panel are broken.

If yes, then test for voltage at the deck/mast connector, obviously with the light switch on.

If no, then check fuse and/or switch connection at panel, or the wire from the panel to the deck fitting. Turning the main power supply off (hope you have a red three way switch - with OFF), cross the panel connector leads for the mast head light, and see if you get a positive continuity reading at the deck fitting. If no, the wire from the panel to the deck fitting is toast.

If yes, try a continuity test on the wire leads coming out of the mast. I re-wired my mast head light, got a positive check on land, raised and installed the mast, plugged it in only to have no light ! Seems in the process of raising the mast, I jostled it enough to break the bulb filament. If you don't have continuity (infinity reading, or if your meter has a chime indicator for continuity) then your bulb may be broken. Again, it's a long way up and the same back down, so the sensitivity of your meter may give you a false negative.

Or, (easier at night), take a 6volt lantern battery and try to power up the light (or a twelve volt if you feel like humping it around and putting it on the deck for a few minutes) using some leads attached to the connector at the mast. Someone standing a few yards away should be able to see a glow (or not).

Basically start at the source, and work your way up.. Way up.. Hope you don't have to break out the bosun's chair..

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2002 : 16:13:36

JM, I do know that I'm getting voltage to the individual leads/connectors that come out of the deck as my voltmeter shows that. And, I know that the bulbs work individually as then I turn them on individually they light up. The crazy things is that when I have both the masthead light and the steaming light switches on at the same time then only the masthead lights up. You idea of getting another battery and hooking it up directly to the mast wires is a great idea that I will try out. I could even take out one of my batteries and pull it up on deck if I needed to and then use other wire to hook them up. I do know that both batteries work very well.

Since I got the lights at least working my attention has turned to other more pressing things, but in the next couple of weeks I hope to get back to these. Thanks for the suggestion.

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2002 : 16:35:22

I didn't read all the posts so excuse me if this is already been covered. I did happen to notice the word drill. I would Highly recommend drilling upward, as We drilled our hole and wound up right in the middle of the bulkhead.

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

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n/a
deleted

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2002 : 16:36:27

Don't bother with the big 12 volt. Wire 2-6 volt lantern batteries in series to get your 12 volts, and use a couple of mini-jumper cables with alligator clips to clip onto your plug pins. As I recall, looking at the plug with the plastic key up, the ground is the one to the right of the key and the others are for the steaming light (for some reason labelled "bow" by Catalina), the anchor light and the last is for the deck light if you have one. BTW, the wiring diagram is in the tech manual.

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