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I Also Bought A Boat !

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/05/2005 : 21:14:25

Hi ! I am a new Catalina 25 owner ! Now in my 50's. Sailed starting in high school up until 1985 when I moved from Long Island, NY to Northern Virginia. Sailed on friend's Flying Junior. Then owned a new Banshee, used Luger 16 and then a new Oday 23 1980 until sold in 1985. Just bought a 1989 Catalina 25, winged keel, Sail#5820 in September. Sailing out of Washington, DC on the Potomac River and...will take every opportunity to sail on it thru the winter !

I just started a website which I will update with more photos/info as I have time. Here is the start of it - Http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

I am interested in making some upgrades and have already started on a couple. Hooked up a 20 Watt Kyocera Solar Panel w/Morningstar Pro15 Controller. I will have to post the photos. I made my own mounting brackets and mounted off the stern rail, I can tilt the panel up and down and sideways. But...seems easier to leave it in the horizontal so I don't have to mess with the mounting screws.

I really appreciate being able to read all the postings on this Board. There is a wealth of inforation and ...I am learning from it.

I have many questions to ask but wanted to start off with an electrical one. Background: I am thinking of installing the electrical panel into a more convenient location. I have read the postings about preferred locations and I am still mulling that over. Leaning toward 3-4 switch panel on the Starboard Companionway Cabin Bulkhead mainly for the running/bow lights. But...may settle for one switch panel mounted on same Board I used for my solar controller and that is right now loosely installed on the shelf above the rear of the starboard seat.
The question is....Anyone have a good description of the use of a Switch Distribution Panel (w/circuit breakers) versus a Circuit Breaker Distribution Panel. The guy at the Boat US store told me that you can use the Circuit Breaker Distribution Panel just like a Switch Panel. You can turn them off and on frequently. But..all I can think of the circuit breaker panel in houses and thought that circuit breakers if switched off and on often where them out. The Boar US guy said that the Marine Circuit Breaker Distribution Panels are not the same and are made to be swithced frequently. Anyone can give me a better understanding of this ?

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2005 : 22:09:01

Welcome! I think you'll have lots of good times with your C25.

As far as using ciruit breakers as switches.
I'm with you. I'd seperate the switch/circuit breaker functions.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2005 : 22:15:05

Hi Larry, and welcome. I hope you become a member of our Association.
Man did you get the right boat! I am a recent buyer of an 89 wing myself, it is my second Catalina 25, the first was an 82 swinger. I am going to assume you have read my recent post on my new panel location. In the 89 the location of the switch panel under the stairs is terrible but is does put all of the wiring in a much better place. Working in the sail locker (where the wiring is on 90% 0f the 25s is) is no fun, I have done it a lot. As I mentioned in my thread, I was primarily concerned about getting my navigation lights in a better place, the rest of the switches are untouched for long periods of time.
I do not have a qualified opinion on the breaker vs fused panels. I have never blown a fuse but one would have to appreciate the ruggedness of a breaker system. I think on our short range pocket yachts we are seldom in a position of needing that level of sophistication; but hey if you can afford the nicer toys then go for it.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2005 : 22:16:32

The circuit breaker/toggle switches you see used in marine power distribution panels are designed for frequent switching under load. I agree about household circuit breakers not liking to be used as high current switches.

As for planning your C-25 electrical panel upgrade, my advise is to put a whole lot of thought into what you might like to have later on, and build towards that. (Hint: I predict you will eventually find a use for far more than 3 or 4 circuits.)

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2005 : 22:17:40

Hi Larry, welcome to the forum. I just bought my boat about three weeks ago, but up here in Michigan, it gets too cold to work on it some days. I am just now figuring out the whole wiring thing and hope to have a plan by early spring. If you have not done so, you should read through the Tech Tips.....what a wealth of information. Cheers.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2005 : 22:28:14

Hi Larry,

Welcome to the group!

'Sorry ... I'm not much help with electrical stuff ... I have managed to get all of my old stuff working, I added an anchor light & bow light, and I replaced all the fixtures inside, but it doesn't take long before I'm out of my league ... I'm electrically challenged

You're going to love your boat!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2005 : 23:47:03

Thanks Guys for the helpful info !

First of all, I just made out the check joining the Association, so that's a done deal.
As far as how many switches....well, my thought is that I would want at least equal to what the original panel has but probably capacity for a few more. It is just that I may put all the switches on the starboard seat shelf where my controller is or...maybe move just a 3-4 switch panel onto the companionway bulkhead for the most important switches. The thought I had was if I was going to the trouble of moving the switch panel to a more convenient location - the shelf seems the easiest especially since I already have my solar panel controller mounted on a board located there. That would make it a lot easier to get to the switches especially when single handed sailing is involved and darkness approaches. Who wants to search in the dark for the switches under the seat steps ? But ...if I commit to moving the panel..well then the companionway bulkhead really makes it the best location for the light switches since those are the ones most frequently used as darkness approaches and one wouldn't have to leave the cockpit area.

Circuit breaker panels versus swirtch panels with fuses or circuit breakers - Well..I was not even thinking about circuit breaker panels until the Boat US store guy mentioned it. I thnk that is probably more geared to a much larger and more sophisiticated boat/setup. Fuses versus circuit breakers....I am not sure right now. I guess the thought of the one time when a fuse goes (which may never happen) may be just the time when I will not be able to find a replacement fuse in a timely or otherwise manner. (Sort of an electrical Murphy's Law correlation ?) But one thing I believe I do want is one of the panels where they have a separate fuse or circuit breaker for each circuit. You never expect a fuse to go but if it does, I don't want to be in the position that it knocks everything out.

I am also sort of electrically challenged. But I can manage some stuff but just takes longer. Purchased one marine electrical book and have another on it's way from Amazon. So that should help a bit.

Thanks again for the warm welcome. More questions to come and hope to update my website soon with the solar panel photos.

Larry

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 05:14:27

Hi Larry, I am thinking along the same lines. I want everything in one place. It is not the sunny day I am thinking of, it is the rough dark nights when I don't want to fumble around trying to find something. I talk to my sail maker yesterday and he is making me a set of pockets that will mount on the inside of the companionway bulkhead that will hold a very sharp knive and a good flashlight. I really like to sail at night and want light handy if something goes wrong. Keep us up to date and post pics of your progress. Cheers.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 06:58:34

I was very happy with the custom pockets that i had on my last boat. I had four twist snaps installed, one in each corner so the bags would hold against the bulkhead and not hang away at the bottom, I also had mesh put in the bottom. I also had him match my almond color. I did not want bags outside where they would age and get nasty.

On my 89 I am using teak binocular boxes in the same locations. They don't require quite as much Fishing around to locate things.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 07:10:33

Hi Frank, Yep that is just about what we came up with. I did have him section off one narrow pouch for the knive and one narrow pouch for the flashlight. The other larger pouch is just for what-ever. I think I will call him today and suggest the netting in the bottom. Thanks.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 08:34:54

Looking at the photos of Robin's Nest on your website, the mast seems to hang lower than usual - is #5820 a Tall Rig?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 12:48:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lcharlot
 ...the mast seems to hang lower than usual...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The what?

Could be a TR (which is designed for a short helmsman), but it looks a little like a standard rig mast (the vertical part) to me... Could be that he has nothing holding the boom up when the main is down--easy to fix.

Looks great, Larry--congratulations! Now all you need is an engine!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/06/2005 13:02:07

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 20:25:25

In regards to recent posts, quite a few before I've had a chance to respond. Here goes:
Dennis - I have to tell you, after reading the background on your Catalina, everytime I see your boat's name, I have to chuckle about the "Hot Tub" ! Are you keeping the name ? Think you have to ! It's got character. Nice photos - Looks like quite a bit of housekeeping is first chore...that is if you can get past the snow !

Frank - The custom pockets are a great idea. I have sort of a box in that location where the previous owner stored two gas canister horns/whistles. Everyone's photos and thoughts give one quite a bit to think about during these upcoming winter months.

Larry C & Dave regarding my mast - Is it a tall rig ? and the comment about nothing holding the boom when the main is down, needing an engine and...by the way your comment about a "TR" ? "designed for a short helmsman" ? Not sure what this is/talking about - Can you explain a bit more. Anyway here's the story about the first comments:

When I bought the boat, I asked if it was a tall rig and the answer was a "yes". I knew the dimensions of the mast, etc but without it down, I took his word for it. Then when I purchased it, I procrastinated checking that detail out. Your comments inspired me to take a look today - Boat is in a marina only 10 minutes from work. We had snow overnight but the previous owner had a brand new custom made canvas cover that suspends over the boom covering just over the forward hatch and to the stern. I put it on just a day or so before the snow and brushed off enough of the snow to climb aboard today. I hooked up some lines to the main halyard and hoisted the line up to where the shackle hits the block at the top of the mast. I then measured the line length from the cabin top to the shackle - That gave me the approximate length of the mast. It measured approximately 30' 3'. I checked the spec drawing for the Catalina and it lists the standard mast length as 28' and the tall rig as 30'. So...unless I made a mistake somehow, it's a tall rig.

The reason I think the mast/boom looks a bit askew...beats me ! I don't know what was the story the day I took the photo. LOL The boom is pretty much horizontal but...wasn't in the photo. All I can think of is that the boom is held to the rear stay by a wire that is attached to the stay. It is possible that I may for some reason had hooked it up that day with that wire wrapped around the stay making the wire shorter than normal and so the boom was cocked up at an angle. That and the angle I took the photo may have exaggerated the effect. I assume that the wire attached to the rear stay with a snap to attach to the end of the boom is standard on catalinas. Maybe....

The engine. WHAT HAPPENED TO MY OUTBOARD ? WHERE THE HECK IS IT ? LOL I guess I have to look for another photo or retake the snapshot. Well, there is a story regarding the outboard and probably should be a separate post. It does have an outboard. It's a Honda 4 stroke 9.9 and is about 12 years old. I am probably going to replace it and right now considering all the most popular choices but strongly considering either the Yamaha or another Honda. I have all Honda cars and had some in the past as well. Also read Mr. Honda biography (book) and so I am pro-Honda despite the finickiness of the outboard on this boat. The outboard was taken off for a few weeks . I had a Honda mechanic working on it after the general mechanic that serviced it and other things for the past owner recommended bring it in to engine mechanics at a nearby marina after the problem could not be solved. I had among other things that were tweaked, the oil and carburetor replaced. 75% of the time the outboard works great. Once it starts and mostly starts on first or second time (manual/electric start w/6 amp alternator), it runs great from idle and up. BUT....sometimes, it won't start for beans. Giving it a rest and retrying every so often - it restarts like no problem ever existed but that could be a 1/2 hour or 2 hours later ! Sometimes, it is just when I have to get under a bridge coming back from sailing or when starting to prepare to enter the marina. Sometimes it's when I want to go out for the day. BUT...now that I am thinking of replacing it...it is running better ! IT's an electrical problem that the mechanic has seen on some Honda's of this vintage (12 years old). It's not bad gas, it's not the carburetor, it's not reflooding the old or new carburetor, it's not the small jets. I use the fuel stabilizer, emptied the gas tank, swished it around to get any debris out of it and change the gas farly frequently (3 weeks, 4 weeks). When it was in for repair...the mechanic had headaches with it even after the carburetor, etc was replaced. ...and then it ran fine for next 10 times !

I remember when I had a new 7.5 HP Evinrude on my 1980 new ODay23. That outboard was great ! Nothing like a dependable engine ! I want those days again ! The mechanic recommended that all the electronics should be changed out of the outboard if he has to go back in there and he said it would be expensive to do that. That's after I spent $200 on the maintenance on it to date. He recommended that it would be better to put the money toward a new engine than to invest it in the old one. Meanwhile...I am still thinking about there is nothing like a new engine that is dependable. The general mechanic that has worked the boat issues for past 4 years with previous owner also indicated better to buy the new engine if I can afford it. Money is already in the bank ready for the big day. I may wait for the boat show that comes to our area in the late January/early Feb timeframe. Not sure what I will do with the old engine. Part of me wants to take it home, take it apart and put the electronics in myself as sort of a hobby project. But ...too many other things to do and so I will probably sell it. Maybe someone that can settle with it working fine 75% of the time and then can wait a half hour or so for it to work again will want it. Maybe someone that is willing to tinker with it. If I could sell it for say $300-400 that would be great. Anyway...went out this past weekend and the outboard was fine - started both times in and out of the marina with no problems ! Go figure.

Larry

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 21:06:57

Larry,

First congratulations and welcome to the fleet!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 ...by the way your comment about a "TR"? "designed for a short helmsman"? Not sure what this is/talking about - Can you explain a bit more...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The two main differences between the tall and standard rig setups are...

1. The tall rig's mast is 2 foot higher (as you found out).

2. The tall rig's boom is a foot lower than a standard, hence Dave's comment about the "short helmsman".

Again welcome aboard, Larry.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 22:14:44

Don,

Hey thanks for the input ! TR - Tall Rig ! I should have known that. Didn't realize the boom was a foot lower on the TR. Well...have not looked it over carefully but I guess it is pretty low on the mast. I will have to check it out again. You know...I do not think they give a boom measurement from the end of the mast. But I do recall when I was looking up the mast dimensions there was a srawing that showed the boom at two different heights on the mast - buit no dimension that I recall. If there was a published length...I guess I could have made my measuring task easier than hoisting a line up the halyard to the block at the top. Could have just taken out the tape measure and measured boom distance from the cabin top.

Larry

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 22:29:26

Larry,

The chart below shows the P dimension for the tall rig as 27' 8" which means with a 30' mast, the top of the boom is approximately 2' 4" from the cabintop.

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 23:15:31

Welcome to the association. That's one sweet boat. I rather like the 89 wing/tall myself

I noticed the wood motor mount. You might check out the plastic version from Catalina Direct (Foredeck) as a good, non-rotting replacement sometime in the future. I'm about to order the white plastic coaming trim rings to replace the "tired, old wood" ones that I neglected because I chose to sail rather than sand/paint.

Here's my helpful hint: When the wind starts to get above 12 knots I like to reef my main to prevent the boat from heeling too much and losing momentum. It seems to go faster, too, when reefed in heavier air. About 3 weeks ago I was out on the Pacific by myself, main reefed, 110 jib reefed about 20%, in about 20 knots of wind and the boat handled perfectly, maintaining over 6 knots ALL AFTERNOON

. What a trip.

Enjoy your C25. I do.
(Plan: Sail this Saturday. Sail the weekend after. Sail during week before Christmas. Sail Christmas eve day with brother-in-law. Sail New Year's Day and most likely day after. And then...)

Edited by - on

PamC
Navigator

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171 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2005 : 23:29:24

Larry,

Robin's Nest is lovely. She looks like she's been well cared for, which is all a lady could ask for. I hope her name refers to a prior owners name, we have an issue with birds wanting to nest in our sail cover in the spring. Congratulations!

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 01:13:29

Hi Gary, I thought I would post these pics to help you appreciate all that sailing. Cheers.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 07:09:15

Pam - Went thru many thoughts on what to name the boat. Finally came up with Robin's nest and it met the whole family's approval. Nest is sort of the boat. nest is also because I have both kids in college with one soon to graduate and so...my wife and I are sort of empty nesters. The Robin part is my wife's middle name.

Gary - Good advice on the reefing and wind condition hints. I do not have the lines set to accomplish reefing right now. Too lazy to look into that...but one day out I was single-handling sailing and a gust caught me when i did not have my hands on the main sheet or jib line. Boat really heeled over - Woah ! I had the hatch covers secured in the cabin but probably not good enough. they went flying - literally. They were wedged using a wedge block on the port seat side shelf. two boards bounced onto the cabin floor and the other flew all the way onto the starboard seat. i still don't see how that was possible ! LOL The port side of the boat almost went into the drink. Looking back it was fun and another one of those many experiences you remember. of course...not all members of the family would share same thoughts. LOL

As far as the wood mount on the original mounting bracket. Rcmd read my posting under Frank's Catalina Direct Rant Post Title. I have the new 4 spring bracket and will be installing it this winter but rcmd read what I discovered on my brackets mounting plate.

Larry

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 07:11:01

Correction - Starboard side of the boat almost went into the drink.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 10:42:47

Hi Larry, the single line reefing set is very simple to set up. The main thing you have to have is the gromets in the mails'l to run the line through. The CD book has a great pen and ink drawing of how it works. two fixed blocks on the boom, one swive block on the deck next to the mast, and then run the line back to the cockpit. The boat I learned to sail on thirty five years ago was a 16' wooden racer with actual canvas sails. It was my grandfathers boat from when he was yound. it had reefing gromets in the main but I never used them.....young and dumb.....into the drink. Cheers.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 12:00:49

Hi Larry, one more thing. I just pulled these off this sites manual section so I hope it is ok to post them here. This is the basic layout of the electrics and can be a good starting point for understanding the whole system.....regardless of how you modify it. Thanks to Andy Paras for his drawing of the mast connection. Also, is a pic of the TR vs. SR. Cheers.

Edited by - on

RickStevens
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 16:52:59

Welcome, Larry. I've just bought an '82 C25 TR docked at Washington Sailing Marina (B dock). I don't know how long you've been kibitzing at this forum, but these folks are about the smartest around. Plus, they don't laugh out loud at newbie questions and comments.

Your new boat looks much nicer than mine, but I originally bought it because I coveted the slip. I figured the Catalina was a throw-away boat at a great location. Now I've learned to really like the danged thing and wish I had a lot more time and money to spend on it. Crud.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 16:56:18

Hi Larry
Congrats on your boat purchase, you are now a proud owner of the "best of breed"
As the self appointed Grand Poobah of Fleet 89, I thought I would let you know that as an owner of an 89 you are now qualified for membership in the fleet.
New members buy the first round.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2005 : 19:10:20

Frank G - I'll buy the first round but you will have to make it over to James creek Marina on The Potomac River in Wash DC area. We don't ship alcohol ! LOL

Dennis - Thanks for the info. I will make a print of it. It should help a bunch. I have previously seen 1 or 2 of those sketches not some of the others with the electrical wire layouts. I need to look that over and scope it out amongst the spagetting in front of the battery boxes. Once again - nice photos of your boat with the snow dump.....If you go sailing with that stuff..is that what they call ice sailing ?

Rick - So...you are on B Dock. I know where you are and...I think I saw your boat before you bought it one day when I rented a sailboat over there and took my daughter out. I think this was in September and I remember that I saw an advertisement for it on a bulletin board in the boat store at the Washington Sailing Marina. As I recall, the guy that owned your boat believe he also owned 2 or 3 other ones. Not sure what he was doing with all the boats. I never got up close to your boat as the sail rental dock was...believe 1 or 2 away from B Dock.

Coincidentally, my name came up yesterday on the wait list for a wet slip over at Washington Sailing Marina (WSM). But....I have kind of got used to James Creek Marina and it's only about 5-10 minutes from work. (Though WSM is not all that far away as well.) One factor for me not switching was that I have not yet replaced my outboard and it has been finicky. An earlier posting discussed the issues - had a Honda mechanic look at it and it's an electrical issue. Bottom line is that at least 2-3 times, I could not come into my marina because the motor would not start. But James creek has a fairly wide channel to tack over to it and they have an outside dock to tie up to if need be. WSM has that long narrow channel and I feel uncomfortable right now with that arrangement at least until I have a dependable motor. In fact, to give you an idea, about a month ago I had WSM do their $75 Tuesday power wash special on the bottom of my boat. That day, it was very gusty outside. No way I was sailing over there. But I motored over the whole way - heading south toward the power plant and to the beginning of the channel markers and then headed north up the channel to the travel lift. After they got done and 5 seconds after I started my outboard and left the lift bay, the motor konked out. Couldn't restart it. The wind and current brought me over to the first floating dock south of the lift. Outboard then started right up. I waited a minute and took off. It konked out again and for good. Could not restart it. As you know there is 1-2 foot water on the side of that narrow channel but luck was with me that day. the wind was from the North and so was the current. I basically drifted down between the markers. Then quickly go up my main sail and that was tricky since I was heading downwind and had to get onto the cabin to ensure the sail did not get stuck under the spreader stays as I hoisted the sail. Finally made it out of the channel and headed back to James Creek. As I approached the marina, outboard started on first try as though no problems at all. So ended my only visit so far to WSM.

I am sailing this winter but for now with the snow we just had and that predicted tomorrow night, I temporarily put on the cover which the previous owner had made up by a local marine outfitter shop in Alexandria, VA. We will have to meet up.

Larry

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.