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4-Spring Garhauer Bracket Installed

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/13/2005 : 19:12:49

I purchased the bracket from Catalina Direct.My new bracket is now installed. I loaded the photos onto my website along with the experiences during installation and the initial working of the bracket. It's great that one can buy a beefier bracket, many years after the original bracket was installed and...it fits perfectly utilizing same bolt holes thru the transom. Here's the website:

http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Larry

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2005 : 19:42:05

That shiny new bracket sure is purdy!

Nice job on the web site.

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2005 : 20:50:27

<font size="2"> <font face="Comic Sans MS">
A couple of questions.
Is the starboard pad bigger than the metal plate? Would it stiffen the stern if it was?
Is the starboard only on the exterior?
I’m not sure I understand the issue of the bolt lengths; did CD send the wrong size?
The pad that the engine mounts on, did it come with the bracket? It seems from the catalogue they want you to buy a couple of extra parts.
It looks great and I like that it fit the old holes.
Good job.
TIA

</font id="size2"> </font id="Comic Sans MS">

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 00:10:23

I have to go back and get some better snapshots of the new bracket on the transom. That may clear up some of the questions. The motor bracket support flanges are something like 6-8" apart and run vertically along the transom. Each flange is about 1 1/2" wide. I sized the polymer pad slightly larger than the area bounded by the two support flanges. The pad is a rectangle about 1/2" past the support flanges on three sides and extends down past the flange supports about 4". I forget the exact measurements, but that's pretty close. I did not want to extend too far past the mounts because I was concerned that the unsupported polymer matl on the sides may vibrate and/or not remain completely flat against the transom. I took a better look at it today and the pad is sealed with the sealant and flat against the transom. On Sunday, I motored about for an hour and it seemed fine.

I have not thought too match about if the polymer material stiffens the transom. I guess I read what others were doing and thought that the polymer pad had merit for spreading out the load/forces along a bigger area on the transom and not concentrated on just the support flanges. The area inbetween the support flanges is also contributing to spreading out the load. I really did not notice anything unusual with the transom inside or outside. I did not take a starigth edge to it and measure curvature but nothing was really apparent to me - everything seemed flat and the area directly where the old bracket mounts rested were free of stress cracks/deterioration as well. Same goes for the quarter berth side of the transom.

The polymer pad is only on the exterior. On the original installation, the transom from the cabin side has large SS flat washers, nuts and cap nuts. I was going to reinforce the inside but decided that instead of a polymer pad or as some have posted they used plywood, I purchased 2 addl support flanges which are sold by Catalina Direct for mounting on the inside of the transom. But during installation, i found that there was no way to use the flanges since the cockpit inside the quarterberth interfered with the installation. I could at anytime add a plywood pad or polymer pad since the bolts are a close fit with the holes thru the transom - doubt that unthreading the nuts would have the bracket fall off. But...when I was having problems (explained on website) with getting the bracket to go into the deep slots/setting, I wound up standing with both feet on the top of the motor. With the 100 lb motor and then my ~200 lbs, that bracket was firmly mounted. So...right now not planning on messing with the installation. I'm satisfied it will hold up. The boat had a 4-stroke for 12 years with no noticeable problems. The installation now is better than what existed and with a bracket more suitable for 4-stroke outboards.

Yes - You are right, the bolts in the top two holes thru the SS mounting plate were the wrong size. I believe what happened is that because of the spring spindle, a 2" SS bolt size which is a common size would not fit since it would interfere with spring spindle on the 4-spring model bracket. So, the next most common SS Bolt size is 1 1/2". That's what was used...maybe only on my bracket. The 1 1/2" bolt will allow the nut to be tightened but to be correct, the bolt threads should engage all the nut threads and come out the other end. The 1 1/2" bolt is only long enough to allow partial engagement of the thread and on a self-locking nut, it is the last threads that are most important because that is where the nylon insert is that keeps the nut from loosening upon vibration. I checked Boat US store and they do not have 1 1/2" and 2" SS bolts but only their catalog has the 1 3/4" bolt which is the proper size to use. the catalog sells it only in bulk and I only needed two of them. I ordered it from a bolt supply company on-line. I also ordered it with extra washers because I was concerned that the bolt may still be a wee bit too long and I thought that I could shorten it by putting two instead of one washer around the bolt head. That did the trick and the nut engaged properly and i was able to tighten it all the way without interference from the spring spindle. Catalina Direct understood the issue and were going to check their on-hand stock but I was only passing the info to them. No reason for them to call me back so i do not know if other brackets have this issue. The easy way to check for those that have 4-spring brackets is to check the thread engagement of the two top bolts that secure the bracket arms to the SS plate with the thick white Polymer Mounting block. if the bolt threads do not stick out of the nut and the nut appears to have some threads of itself not engaged with the bolt, then you know you have the shorter bolts. I doubt it is CD that puts the mounts together - It's probably from Garhauer but I am not familiar with the manufacturing process and perhaps it was just my bracket with the shorter bolts.

The pad is from the polymer boards that West Marine, Boat US and other marine stores sell for projects. Some have the trade name Starboard. It did not come with the bracket. Probably if one mounted the bracket directly to the transom, that would be fine as well. Just that some of us tweak things a bit. perhaps making things better and....sometimes worse. LOL

The pad that the engine directly mounts to is a thick polymer mounting board that replaced the old wood mounting boards of the original bracket. The new mounting brackets have this polymer board but believe CD also sells the mounting board alone for those that want a replacement for their wood mounting board.

As far as extra parts, well CD does offer many parts but not all are needed. it is a question of how much each of us wants to tweak their boats. As it is, the extra flange supports I bought from CD could not be installed and they were an extra $49. If I clean them up, i may send them back but I got some of the sealant I used on the bolts onto them and so...and then there is the shipping charges. Still worth sending them back. I'll see.

Larry

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 06:25:53

correction - The 1 1/2" and 2" SS bolts are commonly in the boat stores but the 1 3/4" SS bolt size is not so common. i did not spend the time searching out all boat stores but the Boat US and West marine stores in my area only had the 1 1/2" and 2" sizes. The Boat US catatlog had the 1 3/4" size but had to be bought in quantities, I believe, of 25. i only needed 2, so I bought them from an on-line store - think it was Bolt Depot.

Maybe the need for the extra washer was not clear. I thought that the 1 3/4" bolt would be close to the size I needed but may still have an interference fit with the spring spindle that is close to the bolt holes. So, inorder to make the bolt shorter and not interfere with the spindle, I bought and placed an additional washer into the counterbore for the upper bolts that fit through the thick white polymer mounting board. The thickness of the 1 extra washer did the trick and then the 1 3/4" bolt when the nut is fully tightened fits fine in the top hole locations and now provides secure support. It was too risky just leaving the supplied 1 1/2" bolts in the top hles. i was concerned that without enough thread engagement with the nut, there was a chance sometime later that the nuts could work loose.

Larry

Larry

Edited by - on

Brian King
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 13:45:50

I also have the 2 spring Garhauer mount with an '89 Evinrude XLS 2 stroke. Is is possible to purchase and add the 2 extra springs to my existing bracket?? This is on an '89 SR/WK.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 14:48:42

Larry,
Do you think the reason you are having difficulty getting the bracket into the deep position is due to the Honda engine being at the light end of the scale that this mount is designed for? Seems I remember someone having to stand on their engine to get it all the way down.
Joe

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 18:33:11

Reference the discussion about starboard. Last Saturday I bought a HDP cutting board from Sam's Club that is 1/2" x 20" x15" and only cost $10. I think that is about 1/3 what WM charges for a similar size sheet of starboard. I'm planning on using it for a transom reinforcment mounting spacer for my outboard bracket.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 19:00:56

First of all, I modified my website incorporating addl photos to better show the boat cover and how it fits up and also addl photos of the 4-spring bracket which shows the mounting better as well as the thead engagement on the nuts I was talking about earlier.

Brian - I would say it is not possible to add the springs to the old bracket. If you look at the photo of the new bracket, it looks like the spring is first put on the SS tube and then the tube is welded up. Also, close to the SS mounting plate, there is an additional spring spindle that does not exist in that location on the old bracket. It is needed to hold one end of the spring - that is what is needed for the spring tension when the mount is lowered. The old bracket is fine for lighter outboards and can be used for 4-stroke outboards but a block and tackle similar to what is shown in my photos would have to be used or would not be able to raise the 4-stroke easily...maybe not at all.

Joe - You are definitely right ! In fact, the first day I installed the bracket, I did stand on the engine ! But...it's not that all Honda's are light for this bracket. I believe the weight of the 12 year old Honda 4-stroke is about 98-102 lbs. That is lighter than the presently made 4-stroke Honda's with 20" and 25" shafts which depending on the specs/advertising/options you read seem to weigh in at approximately 107-115 lbs. But yesterday, i did get the bracket to finally go into the lower slots. Working the bracket some more seemed to make it a bit easier - maybe it is a little bit less stiff now. Still, I have to use a bit of technique - I have to push it down abruptly and then quickly snap it into the deep slot setting. I was able to do that several times with no problem and I believe it will improve a bit more as I put it into use. Also, I was planning on buying a new Yamaha or Honda probably this winter. I may wait for the boat show to come to town in February and make a decision then. I am leaning toward a new Honda.

Eric - Good suggestion ! The polymer boards sold in the Boat US and West Marine stores is very expensive as you indicated.

John - Your earlier comment about the dimensions of the polymer board I used - Take a look at the new photos I put on the website today. The board does not extend 4" below the bracket mount. I may have thought originally to do that but then decided against it. The polymer is about 1/2" past the bracket mounts on three sides and below the bracket mount it extends about 1".

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2005 : 20:12:58

Eric,
I have looked at those at SAM's as well. Starboard has UV inhibitors, cutting boards don't. The cutting board material is also not quite as stiff which you will find out if you work it with power tools, (and have worked starboard for a comparison). However!!! Give it a go, what is the harm? If you are not happy with it then go for the starboard.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2005 : 06:46:13

Woah ! You got me concerned ! The Boat US Polymer material is not a trademark "Starboard" product but I believed it was very, very similiar. I checked last night in the catalog to see if it was with UV inhibitors. It is...so no problem. Most of the stuff in the boat store's seem overpriced and so wherever possible, getting alternate material sources makes sense. but you pointed out the downfall that sometimes can happen with that approach. Inside the cabin, other construction material that at least stands up to moisture is probably suitable. But on the outside, the uv inhibitor is definitely something one would want if it was available and it is...but is expensive. In my case, I had the extra material left over from mounting my solar controller. Anyway, your posting just shows that one really needs to consider many factors when going ahead with boat projects. While the outboard mounting pad may not all that exposed to direct sunlight, it certainly is not one thing I would want to replace. Now that I finished that installation - I don't want to revisit not anyone else. For that installation - go with the extra expense and get a Starboard or a rigid polymer with Uv inhibitors.

Larry

Edited by - on

KYD516
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2005 : 12:14:08

Thanks for such a detailed explanation. I plan on switching to a 4-spring in the near future:

Here is my dilemma: I find that the two lower notches make the engine sit a bit too low when under power. The upper notch is too high. I need a setting inbetween.

Would it be unwise to try to drill another notch? Is there another style mount that allows for more adjustment?

Thanks.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2005 : 13:31:21

Change the holes you use ont eh transom through bolts, I did.

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