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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Furler Luff Deduction

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/11/2006 : 15:26:05

In the sailmakers instructions for the CDI FF4 Furler it calls out a 22" luff deduction and a #6 luff tape. Does anyone have any idea what the "luff deduction" is referring to? I would surmise it relates to an overall 22" deduction from a hank on jib but that is just a guess. The luff for a C25 135 hank-on is 28' (I believe). A 22" deduction would equate to a 26'-2" luff. What size luff should I be looking for?

Joe Wergers
Utopia
Fleet 7/Oceanside, CA
78 C25 FK/SR #381

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 16:04:03

On a furler there is a drum at the base of the furler to let in and out line to reef the sail. The Luff deduction is so that the sail can be rolled up onto the furler with out covering the drum. I had the problem on our boat that the sail was cut up to high on the luff and the foot of the sail was a good 2'0" off the deck at the clew. The higher the foot is of the deck the more heal the boat will have. You should buy a sail that is made for the Catalina 25 and take it to a sail maker and have them repair or cut the sail for the furler. If you have a local sailmaker he could also go out on the boat and make sure that the cut is right for the boat, and that the draft is set correctly.

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wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 17:51:28

Just remember, that if you are planning to race with a furler, you will be greatly handicapped because that 20-22 inches of sail you give up to have the furler greatly takes away the winning ability. Look at the historical finishes of all the national races, the winners all used hank on of fast track sails. But if your a cruiser, another reason for the 20 inch cut back is for visability, and to clear the life lines. you can get buy with a 12 inch cut back and do just fine, and have more sail for light winds.

Bill Meinert

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 18:35:15

Thanks for the feedback. I currently have a 155 hank-on genoa that I was contemplating converting to a furler. Cruising Direct offers a 135 or 150 furling package for about $1,000 and 1,050 respectively. If I elected to go that route it sounds like the 150 might be the better choice to make up for the luff deduction. I am not a racer but who knows what I will be doing in the future. Sounds like my fleet (Fleet 7) is starting to get a lot more competive recently.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 19:23:00

If all you are buying is a 135% genoa then you should be okay. The luff on a 155 is 30 Feet, so you still have a bit of hoist room (if your 28' measurement is correct.)to play with. you shouldn't lose too much area, if any at all.

Duane

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 20:08:41

Cruising Direct's furling 135 and 150 both have the same luff (28.5) and leech (26.8). The difference is in the foot. 15.3 and 17.3 respectively. Given I am not a racer, and most of the sailing I do is in light air (<10 kts.) I am leaning towards bigger is better. Anyone find fault with that argument?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2006 : 20:31:19

Just so happens... I just bought a new full hoist 135 from Ullman. I measured my FF4 luff and came up with 28.5'. I had the sail built wit the luff at 28' to allow for aging and high wind luff tension. Joe your numbers are probably short because the luff measurement is seldom given, it is always the mast height at the forestay fitting and LP that are given.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2006 : 11:48:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 ...Given I am not a racer, and most of the sailing I do is in light air (<10 kts.) I am leaning towards bigger is better. Anyone find fault with that argument?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Joe,

With roller furling, the size of the primary headsail should be one that can be flown the majority of the time according to your local conditions.

I have a 135 on my furler and I can use it maybe 80-90 percent of the time according to my local prevalent winds. A 155 might be usable 20-25 percent of the time and a 110, although it can be used all the time, I would be undercanvassed the majority of the time I spend on the water. So my 135 is a very good compromise between the 155 and 110.

You said that your sailing venue has winds on the light side and were wondering if bigger is better (135 or 150)...hmmm, here's my opinion...if the 150 is a very good compromise between a 170 and 135, and is the right sail that can be used the vast majority of the time, then get the 150. But if the 135 is the better compromise based on your local conditions, then I would get 135.

For my prevailing winds, the 135 is the right sail because I would rather be undercanvassed some of the time than overcanvassed most of the time.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2006 : 13:15:53

So one last question. If I am using the 150 (or 135), and need to go smaller, will reefing the sail (partially rolling it) be possible. I have heard this can be done but at a penalty as you change the draft of the sail dramatically. What are the drawbacks to that?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2006 : 14:55:47

Joe,
A furling sail should be built flatter than a hank-on because of that very issue. There are also many tricks to help with the furled shape. The most common is the foam luff which fills up some of the draft as you furl so the remaining sail is not so baggy. One of the reasons I prefer a 135 is that it's shape will be better when reefed to a smaller sail than the 150 will. A 150 needs a big draft pocket and has much more cloth to roll up. I had a full hoist 135 made with a low clew. It will give me an area very close to a high clew 150 but will be much easier to manage and will have better reefed shape. You might want to contact Gary at Ullman Ventura and talk to him, he is THE Catalina man.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2006 : 17:44:50

Joe, my roller furler is a 135. I'm in Mission bay, you Oceanside. The 135 is a great sail and points better than a 150. On your standard rig, you could fly the 135 90% of the time, the rest, just put the single reef in the main and you'll be fine. Remember that rough and windy crossing we had from Dana to Catalina? That day I flew my 135 and non-reefed main all the way over. If you had the 150 up you would have been overpowered.

Mike MacElroy also has a new roller and he selected to go with a 135. I think its the best all around sail for our boats.

If you have a foam luff added you'll be able to roller reef down to a 110 easily. With a 110 and a reefed main you're ready for winds 20 to 25 knots. Your boat won't point as well but with that much wind it usually doesn't matter.

Since you're mainly cruising and day sailing, I'd go for a 135 with a good cutaway for visibiliity.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2006 : 12:12:24

Thanks for the information guys. I have never been a fan of how much my 155 blankets the leeward side of the boat so given your recommendations the 135 is definitely the way to go. I'll check out the wind and foam luff additions.

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