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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Porti to Perma Potty

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haley
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/23/2006 : 09:08:38

Greetings,

I searched the archives but can not find someone installing a marine head instead of a porti-potti. I looked at a really nice '89 FK but it has the porti-potti and our northern neighbors on the other side of Lake Ontario frown on porti-potties. Is this possible or should I keep looking.

Regards,

----------------
John
Precision 18
Rochester NY

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2006 : 11:25:31

John,

I upgraded my 1979 C-25 from a porta-potty to a real marine head with holding tank. The process is exactly the same as installing a MSD from scratch, once you carry the porta-potty off the boat.

Catalina shows the holding tank under one of the seats in the main salon. I installed a 16gal holding tank under the fwd point of the V-berth. My installation draws its flush water from a T located below the waterline in the head sink drain hose. Be sure to study up on vented loops, proper seacocks, holding tank venting, marine waste hoses, etc. I highly recommend reading Peggie Hall's book on boat odors to familiarize yourself with the issues to be addressed, potential pitfalls, and the trade-offs involved.

My system has been in use for several years without odors or other problems.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2006 : 12:02:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by haley
 ...I looked at a really nice '89 FK but it has the porti-potti and our northern neighbors on the other side of Lake Ontario frown on porti-potties. Is this possible or should I keep looking.

Regards,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Haley,

A U.S. registered boat sailing in Canadien waters only has to comply with the "no porta-potty" rule if that boat is kept in Canada or will be in Canada for over 45 consecutive days.

For more info, see [url="http://www.tc.gc.ca/BoatingSafety/facts/foreign.htm"]Requirements for Foreign Recreational Boaters In Canadian Waters[/url]

You know what?...after reading these regulations carefully, I may be mistaken...hmmm?

Edited by - dlucier on 01/23/2006 12:34:21

haley
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2006 : 12:31:06

Leon,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I think the head mistress's book would be a must before embarking on this adventure.

Don,
Thank you for your reply. I have not heard of the 45ay grace period before. Thanks! The link you sent was helpful. At the top though it listed the different regulations, and the part about who these regs apply to was not listed in this mini table of contents. It appears under operator competence. Is this "who it applies to" focused on just operator competence or is it for all regs listed? I will dig around. Thanks for the info.

Thanks!

John

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2006 : 12:44:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by haley
 Don,
Thank you for your reply. I have not heard of the 45 day grace period before. Thanks! The link you sent was helpful. At the top though it listed the different regulations, and the part about who these regs apply to was not listed in this mini table of contents. It appears under operator competence. Is this "who it applies to" focused on just operator competence or is it for all regs listed? I will dig around. Thanks for the info.

Thanks!

John

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, John...That's what I was wondering...After a carefull reread, I think the porta potty rule does indeed apply to all vessels.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2006 : 12:59:16

Speaking of toilets, sort of...this illustrates the difference between Canada's and Michigan's alcohol rules...

In Canada, alcohol may be consumed on board the pleasure craft if it meets all of the following conditions:

The vessel has permanent sleeping facilities
The vessel has permanent cooking facilities
The vessel has a permanent toilet
The vessel is anchored or secured alongside a dock

In Michigan, a boater can be driving 50mph with a beer in each hand while steering with his feet!

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2006 : 17:35:59

Hi Don, in the last few years, Michigan has been applying the road rules to both boating and snowmobiling. I don't know the exact rules changes but I think you can get a DUI while onboard you boat and, it will apply to your car license as well. I will check on the details tomorrow and repost. Cheers.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2006 : 10:19:42

Haven't read every word of the above posts but have you considered one the of the units that allow you to hook up to the deck pump out fitting?

I'm not sure if this meets Canada's req's though . . .

Edited by - OJ on 01/29/2006 12:26:25

haley
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2006 : 11:15:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Haven't read every word of the above posts but have you considered on the of the units that allow you to hook up to the deck pump out fitting?

I'm not sure if this meets Canada's req's though . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks OJ, when I started searching online stores I did bump into these. Seems like a much simpler project than the whole holding tank route. Not sure about capacity but that is easily looked into. As for meeting regulations it sounds like it has to be installed. I am thinking screwed into a bracket could be considered a perm. install - as long as the tank does not just slide out and let you pitch it overboard.

Regards

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2006 : 12:25:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by haley
. . . I am thinking screwed into a bracket could be considered a perm. install - as long as the tank does not just slide out and let you pitch it overboard.

Regards
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, unfortunately, I have experienced this. I purchased the large capacity Thetford model. Thetford won't admit that their brackets will not hold a freshly charged unit on an incline (duh!) I had aluminum brackets custom made. Simple and inexpensive.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2006 : 15:08:38

Since I sail in BC waters this is very interesting with the regs. Last summer I used pump out facilities for our portapotty after removing it to the dock, their requirements, and paying $5. I have used a portapotty in the 25 since day one but have made some additions. I use a line to secure the base with its' handle after seeing turn upside down on the floor when close hauled. I also installed a clear 3/8 line from the base tank to a vent as high up as possible on the hull and on the base; this was to stop any pressure build up on a warm day which did give you a puff when opening of bad breath potty. I do use the Sears unit with the 6 gallon holding capacity and carry an extra base when cruising so we don't have to plan the cruise around looking for dump stations. We don't have pump out facilites on our local lakes so there is not choice but to compromise. I have always encouraged the grandkids and others to use the potty with out worry to not discourage their interest in sailing with me.

Edited by - on

haley
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2006 : 19:28:37

Since I sail in BC waters

Interesting. The existing potty does have brackets and I guess there is a little bit of play in the word "permanent". I could bolt it to brackets with a fresh potty just a socket wrench away. I also have since learned about pumpable porta-potties. Who knew potty technology has evolved so. Thank you for your post.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2006 : 22:58:35

Everytime I think of a porta potti being emptied via a thru-deck fitting, I envision some gigantic vacuum pump with so much suction that the potti implodes

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2006 : 12:32:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Everytime I think of a porta potti being emptied via a thru-deck fitting, I envision some gigantic vacuum pump with so much suction that the potti implodes

!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hopefully it is vented.

Edited by - on

haley
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 08:58:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> the potti implodes

!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, potti implosion should probably be avoided - a true dirty bomb.

The models I am seeing online, and the one recommended by the Head Mistress are in fact vented. Some can also be emptied in the traditional manner in case I am intimidated by the mother of all pump-outs. I think before embarking on this project I will invest in her book.

Thank you all for your insights.

Edited by - haley on 02/02/2006 08:58:59

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2006 : 19:25:02

If you are going anywhere in the great lakes, you might as well install a regular type III head. Porta potties don't really cut it any more. before too long they will be prohibitted in US waters as well.
for what it's worth Canada customs will only allow one bottle of alcohol on board upon entry. you can carry as much as you want while you are in Canada but only one duty free. I was boarded by customs, and as the officer went through the former galley cooler (now wine cellar) I was informed that I had way too much on board. Then he smiled and said that if he ever boarded a sailboat that didn't have several bottles of wine and other spirits, he'd jump in the lake.
He also complimented us as a group saying that he never boarded a sailboat that wasn't in compliance on all safety gear.

I know we go through the porta pottie dance fairly often here and I believe that they are fine for an inland lake where shore facilities are plentiful, so my comments are only in reference to the Great Lakes where I am most familiar with the regulations.

we continue to have such a mild winter here in Ohio, I'm really feeling the pull towards the water and the sailing season. Hope all of you are well, I'm really looking forward to seeing some of you at the nationals.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2006 : 19:47:20

3 of us pulled into Peelee Island and had the Customs come aboard. He asked us how much booze we had (3 25-29 year old guys) It was a lot - and I don't mean a case a lot, I mean a lot we were out for a 10 day cruise. He asked us why we had that quantity, one guy said - because we new we could buy more here in Canada, otherwise we would have brought 3 times as much. He laughed so hard, cleared us into the country then proceeded to give us directions to a good bar...

Its a mild winter right now John, but wait unitl tomorrow. We are supposed to get a good dose of the white stuff tonight.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2006 : 20:04:48

No Kidding!! Though I'm watching the Super Bowl now, I spent most of the day skiing on all the lovely new snow. Well, Welcome to Ohio. If you don't like the weather wait a minute. Snow Trails near Mansfield where I'm on the ski patrol, had about 8 inches last night and today. Dave Carto, our resort owner was smiling like a man dancing in a rainstorm after a long drought.

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