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250WB handling question

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Tray
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Namibia
224 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/12/2002 : 15:59:19

The wind was gusting pretty good yesterday in the Amelia River, and we had a great sail out and back. However, at the mouth of the river, in the Sound the water turned into heavy chop, and the wind was REALLY strong. I was single-reefed with about 80% of my jib exposed. I checked out the other boats in the sound and most had small amounts of jib exposed and no main. Probably motor-sailing. There was one guy on the other side of the Sound with what looked like a storm jib and second-reefed main...I'm rambling now...

Anyway, seeing all this convinced us to return to the sanctuary of the River, so we turned into the wind and furled up the jib altogether, then put the wind on the beam as we attempted to head back into the river. The problem was, I couldn't get the boat to turn back up into the wind, which was coming off the ocean. I had the rudder hard over, but we just kept driving right towards land ahead of us. So I turned away, and successfully gibed towards the river, and once into the river, furled out the jib and continued on our merry way.

I'm very familiar with the currents in this area, and didn't remember until after we were safely in the river, that there is up to a 4 knot current in that section of the Sound traveling in the same direction as the wind. I'm assuming that is what prevented me from coming about. Would leaving the jib out have helped? Has this happened to anyone else?

Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"

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Response Posted - 05/12/2002 : 18:23:26

I have found the 250WB to be unmanagable with just the main up in strong winds. It tends to go into irons and to refuse to come out. Also, when overpowered it sits on its side and slides. However, it seems (in my limited experience) to handle quite well with just the jib out. Our last experience with just the jib had us going into winds in excess of 25 mph with spray coming over the bow and into the cockpit - this on a medium sized lake.

Thing Wind

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acierno
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2002 : 07:53:39

your rudder, unlike a motor's prop (which creates its own passing water), works only when surrounding water is passing over it. if you are going 4 knots in the precise direction of a 4 knot current, you will have no steering control via rudder. slight angling will give slight control, and a 180 degree turn will give extra good steering response. in the wrong direction, i guess.

ron
'mia alessandra'
250wk, hull 463

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2002 : 10:44:05

If the rudder was hard over but not turning the boat...then the rudder was stalled (Irons), and just creating drag which was likely keeping the boat from then gaining enough speed to begin to add lift to the rudder. Very likely the boat was experiencing considerable leeway from its high freeboard.

It's also possible that you didn't have main sheeted properly (either too hard or not hard enough). You will find that under main alone that you need to trim the main as the boat accelerates...hardening as it accelerates.

Many times the beginning point is quite slow, and in the case of the hard over rudder...it just wouldn't go.

The jib will often help tack in high winds or chop which stop forward momentum and stall the rudder... as if you can reach the cross over... then allow the jib to backwind to push the boat on around after it has otherwise stalled. Actually the high freeboard will tend to do this also

I have found the c250 w/b to tack quite well in high winds under single or double reef main only but no dallying here, kick her around smartly after falling off slightly to build up speed. It is my preferred method as there are no jib sheets to handle and the main can be left cleated. I must admit however, that chop will play a big part here...and there may be conditions that the chop makes tacking impossible or that the timing into the chop becomes important to a successfull tack under main alone.

In this case, gain speed down a swell and make the turn prior to the next oncoming period. Without jib sheets to manage, more attention can be given to the helm...and the demands of timing. Practice....and be certain that your board is down.

Last,... the swell may not have been directly out of the wind direction. This will give a favored tack (not referring to favored tack as in racing) which will have the boat taking waves on the beam on one close reach and crashing directly into them on the other. Turning out of the unfavored tack (the latter) is harder because of challenge to get the boat speed up. A current could produce the same unfavored tack situation. In fact, both swell and current could add to each other...or cancel each other. If they added...then tacking without backwinding of the jib would be really tough.

Of course, Irons and backing out of them is a basic sailing manuever every skipper should know. Its mostly a matter of sheeting out and kicking the rudder the other way and letting the wind push the boat backwords, gaining reverse speed and backing the tack. Again...practice (with lots of room).

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 05/13/2002 10:45:49

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2002 : 21:38:53

Sailing with just a jib or just a main can be very dangerous. It puts an uneven force on the mast and in extreme conditions can cause a mast to fail. It is always better to sail with reefed main and partially furled jib. The boat will also sail better in this configuration.

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

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MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2002 : 22:10:25

Jerry Douglas (Catalina's designer for our boat) told me that the C250 is designed to sail with only the main . . . NOT with only the jib . . . unlike the C25. The new J boats are designed the same way. While having a little of both (main and jib) will likely balance the boat a bit better, our boat is designed to take the stresses of main only.

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
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Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 10:37:04

I find it hard to believe that the 250WB was designed to sail with the main alone given the fact that every time I try it I get stuck in irons and/or end up trying not to fall out of the boat as it skids sideways...

Thing Wind

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MarkTM
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178 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 12:26:47

I wasn't very clear was I? Gerry Douglas said that the C250 was designed to handle the stress of sailing by main alone. It was not designed to handle the stress of sailing by jib alone. Of course, one would want to use both jib and main until the wind is such that a double-reefed main is all you can carry.

BTW, the last 1/2 mile approach to my marina is about 200 yards (or much less) wide. I tend to furl my jib and sail the rest of the way in by main alone since I'm having to constantly tack into the breeze singlehanded. Never in winds between 5 and 25 knots have I ever had a problem with tacking this boat with main alone. Speed does decrease without the jib, but I don't have the hassle of tending jib sheets for this short distance. Of course, wave action is not an issue for me. Maybe this is causing the tacking problems for you.

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
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Edited by - marktm on 05/15/2002 12:36:11

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Response Posted - 05/15/2002 : 16:58:34

You're probably just a better driver or your boat may be setup better than mine. I will add this- if you ever do get in irons with just the main up you might run out of room in that channel before you get control again. I hope your motor is ever handy.

Thing Wind

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2002 : 13:33:43

Thing Wind, this may possilby indicate some difference in the wing and center board boats. I know Mark has the center board...if you have the wing...then it might explain part of the variance.

The wing has more freeboard, is lighter and has less latteral resistance... so will be subject to greater leeway and perhaps less ability to make tacks without the jib or back down if in irons.

Your advice to show caution is well put... I have however like Mark, been able to tack easily back and forth in a variety of winds under full, 1st and even double reefed main only in some rather strong winds. But...this may be something the wing keel struggles with.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.