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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

250's Competition

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River Harley
Navigator

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132 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/06/2006 : 19:10:09

Just wanted to share a recent experience with everyone. I've been looking at some of the promotional information on the new Hunter 25. I've seen a few photos of the boat and it got my curiosity primed. Well, the local Hunter dealer finally got one on the lot and I was quick to check it out. WOW, what a disappointment (or maybe I should say, RELIEF!) The interior isn't much roomier than a Catalina 22. That goes for the head compartment(no sink) and aft sleeping area as well. One can barely squeeze by the galley to get to the aft sleeping area, which itself is quite small. The galley isn't much more than a pre-fabricated box stuck to the side of the cabin. In my 250, I need only lower my head a little, but in the Hunter 25 I felt as if I was in my old Catalin 22 - but without a pop-top. The Hunter did not feel near as solid either. Seemed awefully flimsy to me. Getting back into my 250 will seem like sailing a 30 footer after "touring" the Hunter 25. The 250 seems to me to be so much more boat for the money. Now, as far as my 250 goes, it's like the Art Garfunkel song: "I Only Have Eyes For You."

River Harley

Edited by - on

raulpou
Navigator

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144 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2006 : 23:19:54

I just made the decision between the two and chose the 250. There are some merits to the Hunter though. One neat feature is the steering system. They use a hard link with absoulutely zero play and seem that it is a much more superior set-up. The rudder is also a kick up from factory. For me that is a plus since I will sail in some shallower waters. Lastly the cockpit is also roomier, especially with the catbird seats at an angle. Part of the "roomyness" can be attributed to the lack of backstays.

Raising and lowering the mast while underway? Neat if you have a bridge near your home that keeps you from crossing.

All in all I felt the Catalina was a better buy and had more of what I was looking for.

If you ask me the "shoal draft" is suspect on the new Hunters. I spoke with the factory rep and he assured me it worked great but......

-ps: Hunters interior/exterior table is way cool. I wish Catalina would redesign their monstrosity of a table.

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2006 : 13:57:54

I also looked at the new Hunter 25.
At first, I thought it was an updated water ballast model.
Earlier H240 models were water ballast, but the H25 is a lead keel.
The keel looks like the center board on the C250WB.
With the kickup rudder and shallow keel the draft is only 2 feet.
(See picture-1)

I like the self-tailing winches on the C250, which the H25 doesn't.
(See picture-2)

The H25 has a low threshold on the companionway and the cockpit seats go all the way to the cabin top. This means you can sit forward of the main sheet. A few years ago, we had a demo sail on a H240. We were preparing to gybe, my wife was sitting all the way forward, setting the jib sheet. The salesman was on the other side releasing the jib sheet. During a gybe, the boom came around
and my wife was pinned by the main sheet against the cabin top.
Later, my wife said, "No way are we buying that boat!".
(See picture-2)
My wife was much happier with the C250WB demo sail, you don't get pinned by the main sheet.

I'm sure the H25 is a nice boat especially for beaching, but we like our C250WB better.

Picture-1 H25 Fixed Keel

Picture-2 H25 Cockpit and Winches

Edited by - on

raulpou
Navigator

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144 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2006 : 18:15:31

I don't understand the difference you speak of. Maybe I'm a little slow :) Woudl you mind explaining a litlle? Thanks

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2006 : 11:07:51

Ruulpou; I think Russ is refering to the lack of a bridgedeck (I am not sure this is the right term)on the Hunter. On the C250 the seat extends all the way to the cabin bulkhead allowing some space between the cabin and mainsheet. Even more important if a wave broke over the stern and flooded the cockpit there is a vertical seperation (like a mini dam) between the deck of the cockpit and say an open companionway. The picture Russ posted depicts this difference quite well. If a wave broke over the stern suddenly and flooded the cockpit of the H250 there would be nothing to stop that water from entering the cabin unless the companionway boards were always left in place while sailing.

I would never give up my backstay no matter how many times I run into it.

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 03/08/2006 11:11:11

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2006 : 13:58:28

Raulpou,
I'm not a very good writer and post wasn't very clear.
Ray has a point, I hadn't thought about following seas flooding the cabin.
Anyway, we had a bad experience with the H240 demo sail and the H25 looks similar.
We don't like the H25 main sheet connected to the cockpit floor.
It's easy to put your legs forward of the mainsheet then get tangled up during a gybe.
The Catalina has the main sheet off the floor so you don't get tangled.
Here's a picture from the C250WB brochure. Look at how the mainsheet is connected.
The woman on the right is much less likely to get tangled up in the mainsheet.
I'm sure the H25 is fine boat, but we like our C250WB better.

Edited by - Russ.Johnson on 03/08/2006 14:01:36

raulpou
Navigator

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144 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2006 : 17:35:03

Wow! I understand your point. I did not think of that previously and think that is a major point!

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2006 : 17:41:10

Hey... you guys are good! Those are some interesting points.

Edited by - on

High H2O
1st Mate

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35 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2006 : 15:52:10

I just finished reading the classic book -Two Years Before the Mast. I learned that there is a term for when a wave comes aboard from the stern. It's called "getting pooped". I just couldn't leave the thread without posting that.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2006 : 10:28:42

In Cruising World's "Boat of the Year" edition (Jan 2006), the Hunter 41 DS won "Production Cruiser" of the year (40-44') and the Hunter 31 took the honors for cruisers in the 30-36' range.

Another interesting tidbit from that BOTY competition...no mention of "Catalina" anywhere.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2006 : 09:03:04

Interesting Don, time has a way of leveling the field often initially enjoyed by high pressure PR folks.

For those who don't know, Frank Butler chose for a great many years not to play the advertisement game with the magazines and the rags retaliated and may be still doing so.

Frank believed that the best boat per dollar would sell itself and infact he could continue to make it so by avoiding big advertisement budgets, after all... he was making boats for sailors not yachties and cost was important. Only in recent years has Frank done minimal advertisement.

Time has a way of washing away advertising hype, when people look at the new Hunter 25, they don't readily see that there is no handhold to use when ascending the swim ladder or that there is no handhold to ascend/descend the coachroof... but these kinds of things are revealed in time.

Comparing the 250 which has the easiest swim ladder to ascend that I've seen because handholds exist on both sides, that has a very nice midship handhold stanchion (albeit slightly ugly) to aid in getting onto and off the coachroof. Doing away with sidedecks is one thing... but to require going forward over the coach roof without a decent handhold... is a sin.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2006 : 09:58:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 ...For those who don't know, Frank Butler chose for a great many years not to play the advertisement game with the magazines and the rags retaliated and may be still doing so.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Catalina Morgan 440 earned the title Best Production Cruiser 40 to 45 Feet in the [url="http://www.cruisingworld.com/article.jsp?ID=35035&typeID=395&catID=635"]2005 Boat of the Year contest[/url].

Edited by - on

reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2006 : 13:06:47

I bring no anti-Hunter zeal to the debate -- there are thousands of Hunters on the water, therefore they must be doing certain things right. My brother in law has an older Hunter 25 (Cherubini design) and it's a sturdy boat which I like very well. But having just been aboard the new H25 & comparing it against our C250, they don't seem to inhabit the same class. The H25 seems poorly thought-out, as if they couldn't decide what it should be. Cruiser or daysailer? It's as if they couldn't commit; therefore the galley looks like something got on the cheap from Home Depot; the trim is nonexistent; even the boat-show model seemed stripped of the details that give a vessel dignity, and its owner confidence. If I were shopping for a Hunter right now, I'd prefer that quick little 21.5, which looks like a speedy daysailer.

Edited by - on

raulpou
Navigator

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144 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2006 : 17:55:11

That 21 footer looks awesome!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2006 : 18:28:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My brother in law has an older Hunter 25 (Cherubini design) and it's a sturdy boat which I like very well.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Reuben, the old Cherubini Hunters were good boats - much better than what Hunter is putting out now.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2006 : 20:03:29

I like the .5 boats, the 25 5 and the 28 5 are both nice design exercises in volume/LOA. I also like the current 290 with the flybridge traveler. We have one of those at our lake and it is sailed very well.

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Auburn80
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2006 : 21:15:32

FWIW, I looked hard at the a new H25 and and new C250 and decided against neither. Didn't like the Hunters spartan interior as well as the other issues posted here and the C250's issues with steering systems - pedestal and rudder design, size of head area and backstay/pedestal clearance. Neither having side decks finally put us into a search for a better equipped/designed used 27-28' boat for the same $.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2006 : 18:38:44

I got to craw around on one of the new H25's today, and I do mean "craw". To me there is no comparison between the two, the 250 wins hands down. There was a new H31 next to it, I took a tour of it too, the aft berth on the my 250 is bigger, looks like my v-berth was bigger too. It seems to me there's a big difference in the quality of Catalina over Hunter. One other note, both the H25 and H31 had Fire and Co2 Detectors installed, salesman said it was a new law.

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