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Two steps forward - one step backward

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Esteban
Navigator

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139 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/11/2006 : 19:54:06

I have a questions regarding injecting epoxy onto the deck - but first the two steps forward.

Today I set out to remove all my windows, fully expecting this to be a frustrating day. My expectations were to get one window out and break a second one. Wow - no wonder they were leaking. Would you believe I got all six windows out in half an hour?!? It looks like the factory used RTV? A really really slim amount of it. Very cool.

Second grand victory of the day was getting enough volunteers around the marina to take the mast down. This went down smooth all the way until the mast was nearly horizontal. The sheer leverage of us holding half the mast over the cockpit yanked the mast plate bolts right out. Up actually.

Close investigation reveals some definite leaking into the core wood. (Slightly deformed deck under mast plate) Screws were dry. Although to my surprise they looked more like bolts - not screws. (looks more like a poor design) Non the less I still suspect some core rotting.

Any experience with injecting epoxy? Words of wisdom or recommendations on repair?

Inject eopxy or cut out fiberglass and replace wood core section? Thoughts?!? This most be done in a month - gotta go sailing....

Esteban Diaz
Tally Ho!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2006 : 19:57:59

I will give you one tip. There is always supposed to be a person holding the butt of the mast down when you drop a mast. The bolt should be moving freely in the step as you prepare to remove it.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2006 : 20:16:17

Dang Murphy's Law...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Esteban
 I have a questions regarding injecting epoxy onto the deck...Any experience with injecting epoxy? Words of wisdom or recommendations on repair?

Inject eopxy or cut out fiberglass and replace wood core section? Thoughts?!? This most be done in a month - gotta go sailing....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Although I've not done this type of repair, this link describes core repairs with and without removing the deck skin. Look towards the bottom of the article.

[url="http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/GLrotrepair.html"]RoT Repair in Fiberglass Boats[/url]

Good Luck...

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2006 : 00:29:34

the first thing I would do is check and see if the core is rotten or not first. Get a drill bit and set a stop on the bit so you don't go all the way thru the deck, I would suggest doing this in the cabin. Drill a few small holes and check to see if they are wet. If not go to step #3

Step #1 Yep its wet. Well there are two choices for you to make here, One is to replace the core that is wet and rotten. This is one of the biggest boat projects around. Again I would do the repair from the inside. Get one of thoes Rotozips, set the bit so it will just cut thru the upper glass to expose the core material, I would cover anything you don't want resin on. Next scrape out all of the core material that is rotten, get some new core material and resin (polyester is fine epoxy is better). Mix up the resin and start by buttering the core material to the roof, work in small sections, you can use duct tape and wax paper to hold the core material in place. after all of the core is set back in, mix some more resin and smear it in any cracks and smear it on the bottom side of the peice of fiberglass clg, or liner and set it up on the clg. This time I would use a 2x4 wedged to hold it up. Now you have to do some gelcoat work to fill the 1/16" gap the rotozip made for the cut out. Go to step 3 to reinforce the mast bracket.

Step #2 If you want a fast fix this is what I would do, you can buy a product called getrot, drill small holes all over the deck and fill the effected area with this material. I think the First step is the best choice because you have all the weight of the rig on this spot, its better to rip the bolts out taking the mast down than to loose your rig out sailing.

Step #3 reinforce the mast bolts. With any choice above, I would do this no matter what. It will insure that no water will get into the core ever. First locate the holes where the bolts were. take a drill and drill all the way thru the deck with a small drill bit 1/8 - 1/4. Then get a 1/2" bit and put a stop on it, just enough to remove the balsa core. Get soem epoxy resin and take part "a" and fill the holes, letting it drip down to the inside of the cabin, use a trash bag to catch the resin, next tape up the holes from the bottom, Mix the epoxy and fill the holes up to the top. Predrill the holes for the screws or get some bolts and thru bolt the bracket Use a backing plate. This will give you a good solid epoxy section all the way thru the hull. I do this to every bolt on the boat, it takes time, but I will never have to replace the core.

Good luck on the windows.

Edited by - Ericson33 on 03/12/2006 00:30:35

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2006 : 13:19:24

Estaban, my advice looks totally different from the other advice on this forum, but here goes.
I through bolted my mast tabernacle by first removing the compression post. Then I spot-faced the gelcoat on the inside 3/4" diameter. Then I drilled all the way through the deck 3/8" diameter. I bought some stainless steel flush nuts.

Then I put a drinking straw from McDonalds over the nuts like this.
Turns out, the straws from McDonalds are the only ones that fit.

I hammered the nuts into the spot-face from the bottom.

I taped over the nuts at the bottom and poured epoxy around the straws. After that went down, I mixed up some thickened epoxy and squeezed it in around the straws with a syringe. Once that cured, I pulled the straws out. The core is encapsulated and there are some perfectly smooth holes for the bolts to pass through to the nuts. The compression post sits flush against the overhead.
You'll notice that there are six holes in my setup. Someone drilled a few extra at some point in time. Four is all you need.
I could not figure out how to through bolt the tabernacle with nuts when the compression post sat under there. I didn't want to go excavating the compression post just for some nuts so this is what I came up with. I still have some gelcoat to repair around the nuts once the weather gets warmer.
You can see the impression of where the post sits. It covers all but one of the nuts and half of two. All the rest are hidden under the post.
Good luck with your projects,
Dan

Edited by - on

Esteban
Navigator

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139 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2006 : 11:53:37

Okay - first things first - thank you all for the super info and thoughts.

A second close look and a lot more thought into this gives me second thoughts.

The wood shavings that the bolts pulled up where dry. As a matter of fact I was able to screw the bolts back on - obviously not anywhere near as snug as they were. But they do screw in and there is no water that I can see or dig out. My concern is that the area of the exact footprint of the mast plate does have a bit of an impression which is what leads me to think I have a possible problem. Also - after much thought and Frank's astute observation, I think that even right out of the factory, those bolts would not have held the upward pull of the mast's leverage when four of us where holding the mast over the cockpit. After much tapping about with a screw driver - all I got was definite "tacks" vs. "thumps". Tack, tack, tack everywhere I drummed about.

So - the end analysis is this. I will run down this weekend and drill a few holes to look for possible problems. I'll start with the VHF cable hole I need to drill and see where we are. If I detect anything close I just might go the epoxy filler route. My thoughts are that the weight and stress is held by the compression post so I don't see any major problem in using epoxy filler as a worst case scenario.

Hey - half an hour to remove all six windows - I gotta be thrilled with just this. I'm using the CD window kit and will be glad to let you all know how well this works out.

Thanks again,

Esteban

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2006 : 17:56:52

Estaban;
I pulled up my mast tabernacle last year to add a mast plate, and noticed the same "indentation" that you talked about. I leveled the area with glass before installing the new mastplate so it would have a flat surface to rest on. I injected the old holes with epoxy just to be sure, and redrilled for the new. It seems to have worked well through one short season. As for raising and lowering the mast, my advice is BUILD AN "A" FRAME ! I built one per the tech tips last fall and it worked better than I could have hoped for!! Fewer helpers needed, less scary, controlled decent, and no huge loads trying to tear out the screws. A truly ingenious device.

Paul

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