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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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12V Battery Suggestions?

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samoore
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/23/2002 : 10:48:47

I just purchased a 9.9 hp Johnson engine to power Take Two.
It has electric start and remote control. I have some questions about battery selection with a electric start motor.

1. Can I use the deep cycle battery I use for my lights?

2. Do I need to get a regular 12V battery to start the motor with?

3. The guy who sold me the motor suggested that I purchase a regular battery to start the motor as the 12V I have wouldn't do well taking the charge from the motor. He said the deep cycle battery is meant to take only a trickle charge.

What is best practice here?

Thanks,

Sam Moore

Sam Moore
859 806-0933

Edited by - on

Rick Heaverly 86 C25 5382
Navigator

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Belize
206 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2002 : 11:27:15

Sam,

I do alot of crusing, as a matter of fact we are leaving Saturday morning for a 9 day cruise on the Chesapeake. (Annapolis, Rhoads River, St Michaels, Kent Narrows, Rock Hall then home to Worton Creek)

So I have 2 deepcycle dual purpose batteries on board.

I just got a Yamaha 9.9 with electric start and have no problems starting the ob.

Rick Heaverly
"Invictus"

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2002 : 12:11:30

Rick, stop with itinerary already, you're killing me <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> . We may bring OJ down to the bay this fall for a couple of months. I may pick your brain for temporary docking later in the season.

I've always read that deepcycles should be run down before they are recharged so hence the suggestion about one none-deepcycle. But the charge rate of most outboards isn't that much. Wouldn't you have to separate the two batteries so the deepcycle would not be charged by the outboard? The deepcycle is perfect for lights.
Just an FYI, we sail on an inland lake and do just fine with one deepcycle.
Not sure there is a "best" practice.

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

Edited by - OJ on 05/23/2002 12:12:25

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2002 : 13:06:30

Information about why deep cycle or regular. A deep cycle battery will hold its current and volts until its almost dead and then drop off quickly to nothing or dead. If you run a deep cycle to almost dead and then try to charge it you run a risk of what is called thermal runaway. The cells in the battery are basicaly all seperate little batteries. Most may recharge OK but if one cell is weak or realy dead it can charge backwards like a short circuit. This causes all the other cells to add their current to the process and the one bad cell begins a thermal runaway or melt down. This process can cause fire in worst case situations. A circuit to monitor battery temperature is often used. If the battery gets to hot it is disconected from the electrical system.
Lead acid batteries on the other hand dont do this. They loose voltage and amperage over a period of time like a curve just slowly getting weaker and weaker and half way down may not crank a starter. I.E. voltage may drop to 10V then 8V and so on. They are however very receptive to a charging current and topped up on a regular bassis like the trickle from your motor or a solar panel keeps them fit. Now lets throw in one last trick = the gel cell. This battery I feel is the all around best. It has the best qualities from both types. They can be found at CostCo at a good price and marrine or RV application types are available there also. This is what I would use if I were going for a new battery (Just one) untill I could afford to go the extra for a two battery system.

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

hull3551
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2002 : 13:49:51

I replaced my battery this past weekend. Here’s what I did and learned.

Bank #1 - Starting battery: I was told to use this to start the motor and run the motor. This should always be topped off and never let to run down or you might kill a cell. If you kill one cell, the whole battery is shot. It will take a charge, but die off very quickly. I did let it run out last year on one occasion so it might be destined for replacement.

Bank #2 - Deep Cell battery: This is better to run the lights and use as the house battery. This too shouldn’t be allowed to run down, although it isn’t catastrophic if it does (like a starting battery).

What I learned: NiCads and other batteries have a memory (like on cell phones, portable phones, electric razors) and should be allowed to run all the way down before the are recharged. Wet cell batteries (eg, boat and car) should always be topped off. (In my situation) never run the deep cycle and the starting battery together (the switch turned to BOTH, as they both charge and draw electricity at much different rates. This isn’t good for the batteries. So it’s #1 to start and run and #2 once we’re under way. I think the alternator on my Evinrude 9.9 charges at about 4 amps, but I’m not sure.

Another thing I did: Went to Sears and bought a charger called the Maintainer. It’s a 1.5 amp trickle charger that shuts off automatically. That way I can keep it plugged in when I leave the boat. It was around 30 bucks.

Hope that helps.

Jeff Westcott
#3551 Stella Blue

Edited by - on

LOREN SOUERS
Navigator

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USA
100 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2002 : 16:24:17

Guys and Gals,
Now I really like my pull-start 9.9 Yamaha. No worries, and it starts very easily, often with just one pull. I do have 2 batteries, both deep cycle, but have no power at my dock. [Downer] So after maybe 2 months or so, depending on how much music I listen to, I have to pull a battery and recharge. My depth sounder is like a built-in volt meter. When my voltage goes below about 9 volts, it doesn't work any more, so I never get totally discharged. I probably should have a volt meter on the boat, but haven't had the need. I vote for 2 deep cycle batteries. Just don't let them totally discharge.

NINE DAY CRUISE ON THE CHESAPEAKE!! You're killing me too! And on your own boat!! Good time to go too, before it gets sweltering.
Enjoy!

Loren Souers, aboard
Nimue,
The Lady of the Lake

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2002 : 18:00:25

"Can I use the deep cycle battery I use for my lights?"

According to West Marine - "Sure! While your Group 24, 27, or 30 deep cycle battery may actually have fewer cranking amps, due to its thicker plates and high antimony content, it will not be damaged by starting loads. Those who want to have two identical battery banks, and who need deep-cycle batteries, would be well served by a pair of Group 30s for starting and cycling."

"Do I need to get a regular 12V battery to start the motor with?"

I think Rick has the ideal setup with two dual purpose batteries instead of separate batteries for engine and house. Most starting batteries are designed to turn over large horsepower, behemoth engines, not the little dinky engines we use on our boats. Since it requires minimal electrical energy to crank a small outboard, having a dedicated starting battery that is designed to crank a 250HP V8 engine is a bit overkill. There is an abundance of information at the West Marine Advisor webite concerning this topic. Go to the following link and type the word "batteries" in the Search West Advisor box
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ExecMacro/west_advisor.d2w/advisors

Additionally, Exide makes a dual purpose battery that, "has the authority to start a 250 horsepower gasoline engine, and the stamina to run a 20 amp trolling motor for ten hours straight."
Check out this battery here http://www.exide.com/products/trans/productdetail/stowaway_tournament.html.

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 05/23/2002 18:02:07

Edited by - on

Rick Heaverly 86 C25 5382
Navigator

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Belize
206 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2002 : 18:17:56

Admiral Madsen,

I would more than happy to let you pick my brain for docking. When do you think you might be visiting and for how long? I'd stay away from the month of August. Just not enough air and a bit on the warm side.

But, I will be thinking of all of you next week. I'll tip a couple of beers, Tangueray's and Mount Gays in your honor.

Rick Heaverly
"Invictus"

Edited by - on

Greg Jackson
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2002 : 08:01:21

Guys,

The regular/deep cycle battery setup is totally unnecessary in a C25. That setup is necessary if you are trying to turn over a 250 hp V8, or as in some power boats, a couple of V8 engines. It is also used on bigger sailboat which may have a 50 hp diesel engine to crank over. A 9.9 can turn over just fine on a deep cycle with no stress to the battery. Since there is absolutly no need for the higher current load capability of a starting battery, and since a starting battery is pretty worthless as a deep cycle substitute, carrying a starting battery is a waste of 50 lbs of weight and $60.

A single deep cycle is fine for most lake boats. Two or more deep cycle batteries would be recommended for cruising, with the potential for a few evenings out with interior and anchor lights at an anchorage. On a passage a single group 27 battery can cover autopilot for 72 hours, plus nav lights for 3 evenings, a bit of interior light, and the VHF. Of course on a passage you want backup so two would be recommeded.

GTJ

Edited by - on

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