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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/30/2006 : 08:42:00

For as long as the "Mainsheet" has existed, Catalina has given each buyer of a new Catalina a free one year subscription to the Mainsheet. The Mainsheet is not only a marketing tool for Catalina, but it's also a means by which Catalina can stay in contact with its customers, to introduce them to new models when they come out. More than any other brand, Catalina owners have a strong brand loyalty. When they buy a bigger boat, they often buy either a new or used Catalina. Therefore, Catalina should understand that the owner of a C25 is a potential future C34 or C36 or C42 owner.

It would be good for the national association, as well as Catalina, if we can promote the Mainsheet and membership in the national association. I wonder if we could offer our newbies 50% off their first year's membership fees. In order to do that so that the national association wouldn't have any out-of-pocket costs, Catalina would have to agree to give a 50% discount on the Mainsheet subscription for the first year. It wouldn't cost Catalina very much, and it would be a tax deductible "marketing" expense that would directly benefit the people who are most likely to buy future Catalinas. It would be completely consistent with the whole purpose of the Mainsheet. For us, it would be an extra incentive to get newbies to join the national association, and, once they realize the benefits, they would be likely to renew each year.

If anyone would understand the long-term benefits to Catalina from this idea, it's Frank Butler.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 08:50:06

Hmmm... building on that thought.

Wonder if Catalina Direct is interested in setting up a similar arrangement for their "owners bible"?

Discounted or free catalog on joining the Association. Not that it's all that expensive anyway.... and I'd betcha they'd get their investment back in a hurry.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 09:10:51

Assuming that you mean giving a 50% membership discount to used boat newbies, since new boat newbies already get the 100% discount subsidized by Catalina, I think it's a great idea, Steve. However, speaking as the current person that would be responsible for the administration of the program, I think it would be an administrative nightmare. Somehow or other, the recent purchase of a used boat would have to be validated by the bookkeeper or the database administrator in order for the used boat newbie to obtain the discount.

However, your suggestion begs the question, does the association not currently offer enough value to the membership that an $11 first year discount could really affect someone's decision to join or not? If so, what types of activities or products can the association add to increase the value and, thereby, motivate the used boat newbie to join? If not, what additional types of activities, besides the website and word of mouth, might bring more used boat newbies to the table?

We just recently discussed the fact that the information for joining the association within the Mainsheet Magazine doesn't make much sense, although it's free, because to receive the magazine you have to already be a member.

The officers really appreciate your, and other's, thoughts on these issues!

Edited by - Sea Trac on 03/30/2006 09:16:25

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 09:50:22

I think the end state is good, I’m not sure if a discount to newbies is the way to get there. A general any new member, not necessarily new owner discount might be in order if run in conjunction with an ad campaign.

There are thousands of boats out there that have dropped off the radar –

We need to reach out to the PHRF organizations to get information sent to fellow owners that might not know of us. We need to approach people selling on e-bay and on boat trader, yacht world and other similar places and tell/show them that our site is a selling point for them. We need to develop relationships with the Catalina dealers who oftentimes see these boats come through on trade-ins. And we need to contact yacht Clubs and marinas to attempt to contact these members to get them to join. Each and everyone of us, not just the officers should act as an ambassador to the association to encourage others to both join, and if possible actively utilize the forum.

Keep in mind though that more members will not equate to more useable income for the association, especially at a reduced rate. Even with the recent increase we are running extremely lean – as we should since we are an NPO - with very little in the net profit line, if any.

We still need to provide more value – and I hope most of the members and users of this forum can see that the association leadership has made some great strides toward providing value in the past 3 years. We have many more things on the list that we need to work on too. For example many members take mini cruises with others – yet very few of those show up on the cruising section calendar/announcement page. It makes us look weaker than we are in the cruising arena. It’s a simple addition that adds value to others. We have a strong base membership – we need to leverage that and create buying power because of it. Approach businesses for discounts etc. The list is virtually endless.

MTC

dw

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 10:11:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Somehow or other, the recent purchase of a used boat would have to be validated by the bookkeeper or the database administrator in order for the used boat newbie to obtain the discount.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> To qualify for the discount, the buyer would have to send an ordinary photocopy of the certificate of title to the national association. That wouldn't require any effort on the part of the administrator or bookkeeper. But, I'm thinking now that we should make the discount available to any new member, and not just any new owner.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">your suggestion begs the question, does the association not currently offer enough value to the membership that an $11 first year discount could really affect someone's decision to join or not?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I think there are a lot of people who "lurk" on the website, but never participate, because they're embarrassed at not joining the national association, but they don't think they'll get enough benefit to make it worth joining, especially when they can lurk for free. If you can induce them to join with a little dues reduction, then they can feel better about participating in the on-line chats, and once they get into that, they'll want to continue chatting about sailing with their new friends, and they'll renew for the next year. The national association offers plenty of value, but it would be nice if we can pick up some participating members without any significant cost to the national association.

At the moment, there are a number of Capri 25 owners that we're trying to persuade to join us. If we make the offer of a discount available to all new members of the national association, then we can include all Catalina-Capri-25s owners in the offer for the first year of membership, even though they might not be new owners. It might be enough to induce some of them to give us a try. The administrator or bookkeeper would only have to check our membership list to see if the applicant is entitled to the first year discount, and they'd only have to check that list when an applicant is claiming that they're entitled to the discount. All of our Catalina-Capri-25 classes have so many common interests and concerns, that, once they get involved in the forum, they'll stay here.

We could post a conspicuous 50% Discount notice on our home page.

If we do this, Catalina would bear the out-of-pocket expense by waiving half of their subscription fee, so, we'd have to persuade Catalina that it would be a good thing for Catalina to do. That shouldn't be difficult, because I think it would be good for Catalina. From our perspective, we would probably increase our membership base without any significant out-of-pocket expense. Over the long term, that would increase the club's annual income.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 10:15:39

We have enough in the bank to sport a 50% new member discount for a while - the officers can discuss it...We wouldn't have to even bother catalina - who doesn't have much to do with the Mainsheet anyway -- and not have to hear them say no.

dw

Edited by - Champipple on 03/30/2006 10:16:20

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 10:26:42

Thanks for your support, Duane. I really appreciate your "can do" spirit! But heck, there's no harm in asking Catalina. The worst they could do is say "no," and you never know...they might say "yes." The bottom line for them is that the dollar amount to them would be peanuts.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/30/2006 10:28:38

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 11:44:26

First of all a buyer of a new Catalina 250 has his membership for the first year paid for by Catalina.

So I assume you are suggesting a discount for 1st time members of used boats.

In the "notes from officers meeting" thread we are announcing an immediate increase in fees. $22 / year is so low its negligable. Either you see the value in this organization and join up or you don't. In any case you are welcome to post on the forum.

I don't think offering first time members dues of $11 would make a difference. Anyone who would join for $11 would join for $22.

If we did this we would either be spending money out of our reserve, or raising dues to $23 for everyone else to cover the shortfall.

Plus having 2 rates would be difficult to administer.

Just my 2 cents.....

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 12:32:02

If Catalina waived half of their Mainsheet subscription fee, how would it cost the national association anything out-of-pocket? Doing this might not induce anyone to join who wouldn't otherwise join, but, on the other hand, it might get us some new members, especially the Capri 25 folks. If it wouldn't cost the national association anything, what do we have to lose?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 12:48:13

I agree with Jim... The only thing that's kept me from sending a renewal check is that (besides not having been reminded that I know of) I can't find my Round Tuit.

$11 verus $22 (guess I waited too long!) is not the issue. Besides, now that I've been out for who knows how long, I guess I should qualify for the discount.

I'm going for my checkbook now...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 More than any other brand, Catalina owners have a strong brand loyalty. When they buy a bigger boat, they often buy either a new or used Catalina. -- Steve Milby "Captiva Wind II" C&C 35 Landfall<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Some do, some don't--right Steve?

(Frank might have read that and smiled...)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/30/2006 12:50:03

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 13:20:33

Sorry Steve, love you like a grandfather but:

Price is not a barrier nor an incentive, hassle is the issue and we have dealt it a death blow by implementing PayPal, anyone who cannot get up off their virtual duff and pony up now can bite my virtual... what? Coming Honey... gotta go.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 03/30/2006 13:24:21

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 13:53:51

The $11. isn't an incentive to me either, but we're already members, and we already receive the Mainsheet, and we already know how valuable it is. But, everybody likes a bargain, and some owners don't have our financial means, and people who aren't members yet don't know how valuable it is, and they might need a little incentive to get them to fill out the application and send in their fees.

Many non-members see us as a website that they can join for free. Why not give them an incentive to join and pay their fair share? Don't think about this as a member of the association. Think about it as if you were a lurker, or other non-member, who is toying with the idea of joining, but, like Dave, can't find his Round Tuit. What little incentive could we offer that might motivate him to fill out the form and send in a small check? Hmmmmm....

I'll ask again, what harm is there in trying it, if it won't cost the national association anything out-of-pocket?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 14:20:29

I suspect that Catalina has already decided how much Mainsheet is worth as a marketing device... We'd be asking them to re-evaluate that decision, to define a new marketing expense, and to administer that expense. Then, somebody in the association would have to administer the process with Catalina. I think it could be debated how much Mainsheet changes a Catalina owner's propensity to chose another Catalina... and the wonderful C25/250 Association could even be viewed as a reason not to move up!

Another argument could be made for offering a first-year used boat discount as a method of increasing membership, where theoretically the unit revenue reduction is more than made up by the greater number of members, especially when they renew at the full rate. (That assumes that they do...

) Could that be the bigger revenue challenge/opportunity--missing renewals? What's our record with that? Am I the only one? Should I be listed as a Master Marine Consultant when I've been stiffing the organization??

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 14:36:04

I was going to let this go, but now I feel that a response is required. Please don't interpret any of this as a "can't do attitude", but do remember that I am the primary one that has to do. Nor do I want you to get the impression that the suggestions and discussion are not appreciated.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 The $11. isn't an incentive to me either, but we're already members, and we already receive the Mainsheet, and we already know how valuable it is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'll get beat up for stating this, but I don't personally find any value in the Mainsheet Magazine. As a matter of fact, I personally got so sick of reading the big boat stories (I don't have much of any financial means) and paging through the big dollar advertisements that I requested my subscription be cancelled in order for the association to retain my dollars that would otherwise go to lining the pocket of the publisher. For me personally, the value is in this forum and the association of its participants. I'll continue to pay $22 per year to support just that benefit.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Many non-members see us as a website that they can join for free.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bingo!
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 I'll ask again, what harm is there in trying it, if it won't cost the national association anything out-of-pocket?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The cost, although not apparent, is this:

1) Every quarter a distribution list must be prepared and sent from the association's database management firm to the publisher of the Mainsheet Magazine, who in turn sends an invoice to the association for the number of magazines distributed that quarter. In order for the publisher to reduce the price to the association on the first four quarters' distribution, the membership would have to be segregated into newbie and non-newbie categories for both the distribution list and the invoicing. Since the publisher is not affiliated with Catalina Yachts, either the publisher or the association would have to apply to Catalina for the subsidy. Keeping in mind that membership dues are paid on an annual basis, membership database management then becomes an extremely complex process of managing rolling twelve month recategorizations. Therefore, the association's cost for those database management services increases due to the additional amount of time required to manage the segregation process.

2) An alternative scenario would be to have an association volunteer handle the segregation process and membership database management, and the treasurer/bookkeeper would be the logical choice. However, that person already has plenty of work to do associated with just bookkeeping and administration; and personally, I'm not going to give anyone a call option on my time (of which, as a single parent, full-time employee, part-time student, and avid sailor, I also do not have any significant means).

Again, the suggestions and discussion are appreciated, but perhaps this one was better done via email.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 14:43:41

Let me make 4 statements and lets put this issue to bed.

1. We realize that we need to attract more members and are working on ways to do so.
2. Catalina Yachts does not own the Mainsheet. They pay for it like we do. Asking them for the discount will hurt us in other areas where we ask for their support. We cannot go to the same well for every need. They pay us way more than the cost of a membership as it stands right now after the increase. There is no need to even mess with them. I will vote against such a proposition. If we want a discount, we can absorb it.
3. When you know someone isn’t a member, encourage them (politely) to join. That is the incentive.
4. Our membership numbers remain very strong. We have to realize that to some people, we do not and never will provide value.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 15:29:09

JB and Duane, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense. If I get any more ideas, you want me to let you know, right?

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 15:37:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 JB and Duane, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense. If I get any more ideas, you want me to let you know, right?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Of course we do, Steve. If it weren't for passionate people, nothing new would ever get accomplished. We did accomplish something, didn't we?

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 17:14:13

Couple thing's, maybe they have been discussed before.

There seems to be somewhat of an interest on titles like "Deckhand" and "Skipper" and so on. Seems everyone wants to get that Newbie gone. Is there a way to set the web page to show who the non members are? Maybe putting "Non Member" next to their name. Let them continue to have access but not count their post for advancement until they pay up? To me that would be an incentive to join.

Also is their a way in the members section to post beside the persons name the date they paid their last subscription so to be a reminder to know when we are due again.

Just a couple thoughts...

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 17:26:20

I am new to the Association, but I have been here for over a year posting on the site, and reading the great stories you all right about. As a new member I didn't sign up for the Mainsheet, I joined because I felt like I needed a home for our boat, Somewhere to find useful information, and a place to share the experiences I have had with our boat. I fell like if there is a question about any kind of fiberglass repair, or anything to do with sanding the hull, bottom paint prep, or painting I have the knowledge to answer these questions. For me this makes me feel like I have given back to the membership. As for the 22 bucks to join, That's cheap, I don't know of many people that could not afford the yearly dues. I myself just starved my wife and son for a week to make the payment. I think that there could be other ways of getting people involved with the Association.

Talking with Duane yesterday I feel like we all need to brain storm on this. I know its just a bonus for the first timer, but it need to be some think really good to get all of these groups of people back under the Association. Per my email yesterday, here at windycrest I bet we have 15 C25's that are sitting out of the docks, I don't know if we even have a fleet left, but the member do get together and throw parties at the club.

You all might throw in a hat or a shirt, I don't know the cost, but that might be a good idea for first timers.

Talk with Catalina Direct about giving some personalized cups to new members.

Have a monthly raffle for best post, or tech tip. Try something to get the older members back, or more active. Have a separate forum for this set up. SA Does a Caption Contest every now and then, See if Catalina Direct would sponsor this.

At Windycrest we have a Road Warrior Forum set up, so people can look and see where you are planning on going, then read about your trip.

Have a best Pirate Contest, where the member and his or her family all dress up as pirates and then post it on the forum, again see if you can find a title sponsor to foot the bill for a prize.

I think that the main goal here is to show all members that we as a International Association have a blast at sailing, post the results in the mainsheet, and give Catalina Direct some free advertising by promoting there name several times in the article.

I will brain storm more tonight about this.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2006 : 18:13:14

Good ideas all! Keep them coming.

However, let me throw out this little tidbit as relates to Jim's post [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12048"]News from Officers Meeting 3/28[/url]. What follows is not directed to anyone in particular.

Ideas are great and helpful, but what the association REALLY needs is more people willing to step up and make things happen. It's all well and fine to post brainstorming ideas on a thread, and then sit back and wonder why those things never got accomplished.

I've served in the engine room of this vessel for four years now, and quite frankly I'm extremely frustrated and tired. Frustrated because too often members take the officers to task for personal desires that they think the officers should have gotten accomplished, and tired because we, the officers, have actually accomplished a lot over the past four years. For example, the association has a set of auditable books for the first time ever as far as I know, the Ships Store has been substantially modified twice during that period, the governance documents were completely overhauled, the Capri 25 Class has been incorporated, the website has been totally redesigned, PayPal functionality has been added, and Duane has singlehandedly instituted numerous affiliate programs and member discounts. On top of all that, three sitting officers have been personally responsible for organizing three absolutely killer National Regatta events while simultaneously serving their term in office.

There's no monopoly on volunteering your time and efforts to the association; you don't have to be an officer or staff member. Want something done or improved? Step up and volunteer to do it. Otherwise, understand that the association's only legal obligaton is to process the members' Mainsheet Magazine subscriptions and to provide a website; not even a high maintenance forum, just a website. Remember also that the officers' only obligations are the administration and maintenance of the association and its base obligations.

So, please step up, volunteer and make sure your great ideas don't just fall by the wayside, because the officers' life-plates were full well before they ever volunteered to serve their term in office and they can only do so much.

It's been an honor to serve as an officer for this great association over the past four years and I hope someone with a mainsail full of enthusiasm will choose to fill the vacated Treasurer's office, as well as many others to run for all of the offices.

Edited by - on

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