Association Forum - What strange riggings are seen in pic?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

What strange riggings are seen in pic?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

southern cross
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2006 : 23:01:19

i believe they are called cabooki modulators

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 00:19:43

I don't understand all this after market rigging. Never had a jib sheet foul, my jib sheets are outboard of the shrouds and life lines, and lead back to the "cars" set in the 2nd hole from the rear of the track, providing the proper angle of sheet to clew. All lines are led aft to clutches (except the jib sheets), including the single reefing line which is now rigged outside the boom and runs through a block even with the gooseneck, up to the reef cringle, down to a mast foot block, then aft to the clutch. K.I.S.S., gentlemen: Keep It Simple Sailors. And I do be a simple sailor

Edited by - AADIVER on 04/13/2006 19:21:26

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 06:37:09

I would consider one piece of shock cord to keep a jib sheet from fouling very simple.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 06:52:08

Frank, If I left my boat as Catalina had delivered it, I'd be fighting an inadequate rudder to control the boat, an inadequate steering system, jib sheets that fouled, inadequate jib tracks that didn't allow the needed control, inadequate outhaul purchase, the wrong sheeting angle on the vang, a jiffy reefing system that didn't work, only one reef point when two were needed, etc.

Part of what your not seeing is the evolution of a design. The C25 was continually refined during its twenty two years of production, and guess where likely most of those improvements came from... NOT Catalina, but rather the grass roots solving issues and those getting back to Catalina.

Frank Butler blows no smoke about it and gives credit and thanks to his customers for the feedback that improves his product. It might be true that Catalina's success is because Frank was/is a communicator with his customers and not too full of himself to listen.

The C250 is an evolution of the C25 and likely many other designs ahead of her. Some of it is good and other parts to reduce production cost. The 250 is a spartinly built boat and it is reasonable that each owner will add the improvements that suit individual needs. For a day sailor, an auto pilot is silly... but for the cruiser, far from silly.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 11:04:05

"Frank, If I left my boat as Catalina had delivered it, I'd be fighting an inadequate rudder to control the boat, an inadequate steering system, jib sheets that fouled, inadequate jib tracks that didn't allow the needed control, inadequate outhaul purchase, the wrong sheeting angle on the vang, a jiffy reefing system that didn't work, only one reef point when two were needed, etc."

Well, Mr. Catalina Guru, you don't seem to understand my boat is NOT an earlier model water ballast, it's a 2001 fixed keel, a 2005 rudder and tiller with more than adequate control, the "steering system" is very adequate, my jib sheets don't foul, perfectly adequate outhaul and vang, and TWO reef points. If you bothered to carefully read my post, you'd understand that I changed the delivered reefing system which, I agree, didn't work, and now does work because I simplified it.
If you ever find yourself in Long Beach you have an open invitation to sail with me on my boat and I assure you you'll be very pleased with PRETTY PENNY's seaworthy, oceanworthy performance with her new, greatly improved cabin table and the 280 lbs of weight I added to the bow hatch

Yes, Mr. Butlers 250's are certainly "spartinly(?) built boat(s)" but they only need minor tweaks for performance improvement.
BTW, you advocate loose footed mains for Catalinas. We're having the 42nd Congressional races here this week; all identical Catalina 37's and not even one is loose footed.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 12:06:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FARMHAND
We're having the 42nd Congressional races races here this week; all identical Catalina 37's and not even one is loose footed.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

"YOU ARE WRONG"

http://www.lbyc.org/concup/CC06/Photos/Day2/index.htm

Take a look at the fist photo at Day 2, I would say that all of the sails are loose footed main sails.

42nd Congressional Cup uses the Catalina 37 in strict One Design Match racing rules, I would doubt that even a crew member is allowed to bring sunscreen while racing.

There is no difference between any of them, besides crew weight, and the ability to crew and drive the boat. The Rigging is all the same, blocks, winches, halyards, rudders, keels, ECT, ECT, ECT.

Now for professional advice about a loose footed main, or a bolt rope I would contact your local sail loft and ask them. They would be happy to explain the difference to you, It is really just a preference about sail shape, and control of draft in the sail.
Why did you add weight to the bow of the boat?

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 12:21:43

... Well, Mr. Catalina Guru, you don't seem to understand ... - FARMHAND

Frank,

FWIW, Arlyn IS a "Catalina Guru" ... I'd venture to bet, Arlyn knows more about Catalinas (the 250 model in particular) than just about anyone in the Association ... when Arlyn has something to say, we all listen.

I'm sure you didn't intend it, but your post sounds a bit harsh to me ... 'just my two cents' worth.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 13:08:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> If you ever find yourself in Long Beach you have an open invitation to sail with me on my boat and I assure you you'll be very pleased with PRETTY PENNY's seaworthy, oceanworthy performance with her new, greatly improved cabin table and the 280 lbs of weight I added to the bow hatch <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I appreciate the invite... thanks.

And... it is followed by two points that supported what I was saying... that you improved the cabin table and her balance. And... you also supported what I was saying when you outlined that a 2001 model didn't require as much effort.

Regarding loose footing the main... lets jump back about eight years on this forum to a question by some C25 owner who asked why the outhaul was so ineffective and hard to draw the sail flat in a breese. Bill Holcomb who was the C25 section Mainsheet editor for many years and who used to have a Catalina dealership suggested the outhaul was easier to control if the sail was loose footed. Several (both owners of C25 and C250) tried it, liked it and reported that the stock sails seemed to have no problems doing so. I wouldn't go back, the outhaul is easier to use, the sail shapes better and it is safer giving a needed handhold while on the coach roof but no one is telling any one that they have to or even ought to do it. A boat owner can have a real crow's nest with hatchlings aboard if they like, it's their boat.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 13:58:15

thanks Buzz - I too felt the abrasiveness of that email, followed by the bi-polar invite to go sailing.

I also took the time to check out every picture on that website - all ten had loose footed mains. Although I could not tell if they were from the same loft - but they probably were, as even the advertising on the mainsails was basic.

CS - Crew weight may have been identical - but everyone had the same maximum!!!

dw

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 14:33:58

Wow! This is the first I've heard of the C37. It looks impressive. Does anyone know how their performance compares with other racing boats of similar size?

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 14:38:00

Looks like they are Catalina-Capri 37's...they rate a 72 - which is pretty darn slow for a 37 foot boat.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2006 : 20:43:00

Frank - I was going to bite my tongue, but something needs to be said.

You posted on another persons thread, one that was meant for fun and good hearted discussion, and called their solutions overkill. It might possibly have been the simplest running rig design I've seen in many years too. After an explanation by the originator, you act as though he claimed you had an older model boat and rudely point out the fact you dropped the cash to get one off the factory floor.

You jest at his "guru" status when he quite possibly might be the most knowledgeable C250 owner in existence, and a loyal owner to boot. He has probably forgotten more about sailing than you will ever learn. He is also too nice of a guy to say anything.

Then you go 180 and change the topic regarding loose footed mains and you were caught....I do not think it was because you were lying but more likely because you don't understand the concept of what a loose footed main might look like. Every one of the ten boats at that regatta has a loose footed main. Which I might add was never forced upon you. You asked for input then scoffed at it, idiotically, but scoffed none-the-less.

You, in fact did similar rude things in previous posts, specifically the one about loose footed mains. On top of that you flipped and called the association inefficient in other posts.

Everyone here is a valued member, we only ask that you treat everyone as such.

Please remember that the help and suggestions people give aren't for everyone. If you think they are bull$hit, then provide an alternative suggestion and professionally critique what you don't like about what the other guy is doing. Or - don't post on that thread.

The perceived attitude of your posting is detrimental to the forum and doens't facilitate an open forum atmosphere.

Also please respect everyone’s opinions and remember that voice inflection, tone, tongue and cheek expressions, facial expressions other verbal cues that you think exist in your post aren't necessarily read and interpreted that way by everyone.

Edited by - Champipple on 04/13/2006 21:18:40

AADIVER
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 00:07:05

Just finished eating a big chunk of humble pie/crow and it tasted like sh--t. Sitting in the stands on Belmont Pier Tuesday, watching the Congressional Cup match races with binoculars, three of us were dead certain all the mains were bolt roped to their booms and not loose footed. Just back from the Long Beach Yacht Club. rapped with both skippers and crew and, yes, every one of the 37's were loose footed. They only appeared to be boom rigged because they were stretched so tight. Apologies to all, both thin and thick skinned.
I shall now loose foot my 250 main and report back the difference after a sail.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 00:17:08

It must have been cool sitting in the stands for these match races. The Cup has been here for a long time, and has had many Americas Cup skippers and crew sailing in the regatta. If you want a good view for the races you can go to www.t2p.tv I don't know if www.sail.tv has anything on it, and the www.Swedishmatchtour.com use to have coverage. Its all free to watch.....

I always wanted to sail on these kinds of boats. Match racing is the Ultimate Sailing Rush to me.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 07:19:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 I was going to bite my tongue,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I done chewed mine off!

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.