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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Capri versus Catalina?

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/01/2006 : 10:56:57

Bruce Baker
Falls Church, VA
"Yee Ha" 3573
'83SR/SK

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2006 : 11:01:27

Oops. Clumsy fingers.

Here's my question: what's the deal with Capris? I thought they were late-model Catalinas--between the 25's and the 250's, but evidently they have been around for a long time. Why did Catalina make two different 25 foot boats?

I saw a Capri 25 on Friday, and it looks like it's wider and shallower than a Catalina 25. Is it intended as more of a day-sailer?

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2006 : 11:57:57

It is a racing boat that you can cruise in. It is wider, with more deck room, the mast is taller and it has a planing hull so it is shallower. It has a little more sail area than a standard rig Cat 25. The draft is 4 ft. 2 inches. The hull and deck are cored with coremat making it, for its day an ultra light. Also, coremat doesn't rot. It weighs about 3000 pounds and generally rates around the mid 170's for PHRF. It's a good light air boat if rigged correctly, but it is tender. Check out the Capri Forum here if you want more info. There are also Capri 30's, but they didn't do as well.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2006 : 12:07:34

Capri 25 is a strict one design racing boat that, to the best of my knowledge, was built to compete with the J-24 market (market not boat).

It is lighter (about 3-4k lbs) It isn't a day-sailer per say, but a very bare bones racer. Even in the 35 foot realm you will not find a lot of comfort down below. Conversely, the Catalina’s were built as a cruising boat. We are by no means, nor ever will we be a strict one design model. We have different rigs, keels, not every boat was sold with spinnaker gear or the same mainsheet block and tackle. There are two different (actually 3) cabin styles attributing to different weights and centers of effort. We utilize a PHRF rating system in most instances.

If you check out some of the various one design fleets (not just Capri) you will see that the rules are very strict. Maximum block and tackle ratios, line sizes etc. Some have sail cloth requirements far more specific than PHRF. T-Tens for example must keep the wire halyards to be part of the one design fleet. J-22’s can only have a .6 ounce spinnaker. Other fleets require that the mainsail remain modulus Dacron.

Most older one-design fleets have instituted strict rules on the when you are able to buy new sails and how many. Recently newer one design like the Beneteau 36.7 have the same rules. This is to keep the fleet competitive for the less wealthy owner. If you look at our rules page you will see that the Capri’s have a similar rule.

Boats are also weighed upon recertification, if you are too light or too heavy you have to add weight. Keel templates area also used within millimeters or centimeters. The list goes on and on.

Essentially though, the Capri was designed to race and that is about it. Catalina’s were designed for cruising. Both have owners that cross over of course, but in short that is the basics.

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2006 : 13:15:19

From The Capri 25 side of things here are the differences in our boats. The Capri 25 weight is at 2950lbs We are 24'-7" long, and have a beam of 9'-2". The boat was designed because there was a strong market for the J24 at this time. The boat if sailed correctly will beat a J24 and others in the 27 to 30ft. range.

The boat is sailed best in lighter air 5-25knts. The boat has a wide flat bottom making it able to plane downwind and overtake its displacement hull speed, this is in stronger air. There is only 900lbs of ballest in the keel making the boat heal over in heavier airs, At 30 deg of heal the rail will be in the water,the freeboard on the boat is about 2ft. so the boat is considered a wet boat.

Catalina built this boat from 80-84 then again in 87. I have been told of stories of the boats going over and sinking, but it had to be the helmsman or the crew. I have had ours in up to 27knts, no reef and a 100% jib. If the hatchboards are in and there are locks on the cabin storage areas then the boats should be fine. (just what i have heard) I read that this boat has had more pre-testing than any other Catalina Model. Two boats were produced in 79 and raced, re-rigged, and revised to make the boat as fast and as comfortable as possible. Would I say the Capri 25 is a cruiser, sure for the weekend. There has been one boat that I know of that has raced Offshore, Long distance, and has done very well.

The forward bunks are over 7'-0" in length, and the side berths are 8-9 ft long making the boat very comfortable to sleep on. Ya, the headroom down below sucks, but take a look at the boat She looks fast and they are. The Capri 25 can have everything that the Catalina 25's have, Most of the owners at WYC Go by the saying that they are the racers with the BBQ grill on the back of the boat.

The cockpit is huge I have had 7 people racing on the boat and we all could move around freely. The wife loves the boat because the foredeck is flat so she can go up forward and lay on the deck and get a tan. The boat is light on her feet so she needs to be trimmed all of the time for speed, but she can also be set in the mode of being set and forget.

There were two major values to this boat that we took in consideration before we purchased her, the first being that the cockpit had enough room to move around comfortably with 4 to 5 people on board. the second is that the boat would preform well racing. We were looking at the J24, and almost bought one, the J is a great boat to have, very strong fleet, and you can always get out of the boat for what you have in it. We were also looking at the Merit 25. I think that the Merit is very close to the same lines of the Capri as far as space in the cockpit and down below. The Merit will beat us in heavy airs upwind but the Capri 25 will pass everything going downwind. I have never felt a sailboat take off like the Capri 25 going downwind, it truly is a rush being on the boat.

In closing I think that any boat can be cruised, its just up to the owner on how much comfort that they want to have down below. These boats also can be found in the 6000.00 range up to 10,000.00. For the quality of the boat it makes her a good investment.

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2006 : 09:14:49

Hi All,
C.S. is correct that the Capri 25 has a bit of a reputation of a boat that sinks. I know of two incidents here in the Pacific NW. One happened on the Columbia River during spring runoff. The wind was strong from downriver, causing very tall steep waves. The Capri 25 in question fell off of a wave sideways and landed on its port side, mast 'n sails in the water. The port side cockpit locker hatch had not been secured and the hatch fell open due to gravity. Water poured in over the side deck into the cockpit locker and the boat sank in about 5 minutes.

Similarly the other Capri 25 - sailing out of Tacoma on Commencement Bay - did a spinnaker broach to port and put the mast and sails in the water. The portside cockpit hatch again opened and water poured in. Again, the boat sank in about 5 minutes.

I think that in these circumstances, a Catalina 25 (maybe any boat) would do the same thing. So, make sure that your cockpit hatch hasps are secured.

On Snickerdoodle, I've also installed barrel bolts on the inside of the two lower hatchboards, and drilled holes in the teak trim to receive the bolt. In rough weather, Kathy and I put one or both of these hatchboards in and lock the bolts into the trim. That way they won't float out - or fall out - in a knockdown.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2006 : 09:48:32

At least one sank in Oklahoma, I think it was on Hephner, maybe Ft Gibson.

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2006 : 12:08:02

Yea, any boat that is not taken care of the correct way in a knock down will sink. I always have the cockpit lockers locked, no matter when we are sailing. I read that 2 J24's sank this last year because there was water coming into the companionway. Hatchboards should always be handy to be put into place. On the J24 there has been a lot of talk about there not being any aft bulkheads. This will let the water flow directly into the cabin on early models thru the cockpit lockers.

Its our job as the owners to insure the safety of our passengers and crew. These little steps will make your sailing experience allot safer for everyone. The boat(s) that sank on Gibson were two dealer boats going out for a test sail( from what I was told). The boats I think were given a bad name there after. The Low's up at our club have an 83 model, they have had the boat over many times, and have always paid close attention about safety. They tend to push the boat always to her limits, and they know the boat very well, they have raced her from off of the showroom floor brand new so they have had 23 years of experence on her.

Just keep in mind that all boats can sink, well except for the "mac26" :0

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