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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Topping lift variations

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Rich G
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226 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/07/2006 : 10:07:24

The previous owner of my boat rigged his topping lift with a pulley at the masthead and a single line running from the boom, up to the mast head and down the mast. I have read previous threads that discourage against this kind of rig because of "weight and windage aloft," but I'm not really sure what that phrase means.

While I have my mast down and since I just made the switch to all rope halyards, it would be very easy for me to take this oportunity to recycle my old wire rope halyards into a topping lift, but why would I? What would be the advantage and/or bennefit to that?

Rich

Cerberus
Hull #4695
1984 SR/FK No Pop-Top

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 10:17:07

Hi Rich, that sounds like a good idea to me. I am not knowledgable about this stuff but it sounds right. My topping lift is just a line tied off at the masthead and flopps down. It does not run through shives and I can not acctually lift the boom, just hold it up. I don't know if this is the way it is suppost to be or not. Cheers.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 10:46:23

I have mine led from the mast base, up through a block at the masthead and down to the boom and prefer it that way. Why?

1) It provides an extra halyard if things go wrong. (as they sometimes do)

2) It is a part of my MOB recovery strategy. (using the main boom and mainsheet as a lifting tackle).

3) You can adjust the topping lift without needing to grab the end of the boom.

Disclaimer: I'm not a racer. Different philosphy in place for those folks.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 11:35:51

I have mine rigged that way too. It's simple, extremely inexpensive, and highly functional. I also have a jam cleat on the mast so when I'm reffing I can raise the boom, jam the topping lift, reef the main, then release the topping lift. I have it on the mast becuase all my reefing is done from the mast (still).

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 16:24:42

I have a 1/32 kevlar line that runs from a carbo mini ti-light hanging off the masthead. The weight aloft is almost nil. When you have have the Harken Catalog and 4 windexes plus associated wire a spin crane and a couple of extra halyards, then I'd start worrying about weight aloft. You should be fine with a modest lightweight block up there.

Racers worry about weight aloft because it hurts pointability. I think Derek once said an lb up top is like 10 on the rail. A flat boat points about 5-10 degrees higher than a heeled boat. 1 lb above is 10 pounds of rail meat that you need to straighten the boat out before you even start heeling from the wind.

Anyway - your topping lift isn't going to hurt you!
dw

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 16:48:07

The ratios differ per boat. I've managed through elimination of unused hardware, elimination of toping lift and upgrading my halyards to cut about 35 pounds aloft. On a Capri, the ratio is about 6 to 1, so that translates into 210 pounds, or the equivalent of one 6 foot beer drinking male on the rail. This does not take into account the new 3.1 ounce mainsail. Get a rigid boomvang.

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raulpou
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144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 19:08:53

That is the setup that my boat, when purchased a year used, came with. I have had great success with it and enjoy how simple it is.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 19:23:58

I used one of my old wire halyards, I liked it at the time, It is very strong with little windage. But it is heavy, I am looking forward to using a very light line that will blow back and not hassle the battens. I used a small block at the end of the wire, dead ended the adjusting line on the side of the boom, up through the block, down to another block on the end of the boom, along the boom , down the mast, and back along the cabin top. Worked great and it is how I will run my new one.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 19:54:18

I'll take the other tack and suggest the virtues of the fixed line topping lift.

1. The prime is that there isn't another potential slapping halyard. I join the chorus of those who detest a frigging slapping halyard in the worst way. I spent a night at Club Island in the Georgian Bay once with only two other boats and one of them had an obnoxious slapping halyard all night long. I wanted to board her with a cutlass and do it in. While the slap may be music to put some sailors to sleep, not so with me, I struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep with the foul sound, which I consider a sign of an inexperienced and inconsiderate anchorage or harbor neighbor.

2. Even though a topping lift may rarely get unhooked from the boom tail, it is yet another halyard that can make its way to the block aloft.

3. Why double the weight aloft when no need to do so exist.

4. A halyard topping lift is difficult to make 2:1 ratio for very easy handling of an adjustable lift while a fixed line adjustable topping lift is very easy to make 2:1 ratio.

5. A fixed line topping lift can be easily routed to the cockpit, aft on the boom, forward on the boom, or double ended aft on the boom as well as forward on the boom. It has great flexibility.

6. A topping lift need not be very large, 3/32 wire or 3/16 line are fine. Going that small with a halyard leaves the halyard difficult to handle. A fixed topping lift is often made to the bail of a block to form the component to give a 2:1 ratio. The adjusting section of line at the boom can be large enough for easy handing without having heavy lines aloft. One run of 3/16 line aloft and an adjustable section at the boom of 5/16 to provide easy handling is far lighter than two runs of 5/16 aloft.

7. A single line topping lift will suffer little or no wear on the aloft portion whereas a halyard lift will suffer both normal chaff as it is adjusted and especially will suffer block chaff at the point at which the halyard is normally set... there is much more potential for a halyard topping lift to fail at that chaff point and require a trip aloft in a bosun chair or dropping the mast than there is with a fixed line secured at the top.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 05/07/2006 20:09:53

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 20:52:59

Obviously both styles of topping lift have their advocates and advantages. I happen to agree with Arlyn. Just as he suggests, I use a stainless steel wire rope of approx. 800 to 1,000 lb breaking strength to go from the backstay pin at the masthead to a couple feet above the boom (at its highest position). From there to the cockpit, I use 3/16" polyester doublebrade with 3:1 blocks between the wire topping lift and aft end of the boom.

-- Leon Sisson

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 22:58:58

Frank: Don't you have a boom kicker? If you have a boom kicker, do you still need a topping lift?
Gary Jobson's 'Sailing Fundamentals' suggests that a boat with a boom kicker doesn't need topping lift.

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raulpou
Navigator

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144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 08:27:30

Maybe I am confused but my set up is a line that is not fed through the mast but rather attached to the top of the mast. Then, it runs down to a block where I have a line go up and meet the block then come down and attch to the cleat at the end of the boom for adjustment.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 08:57:44

"'Sailing Fundamentals' suggests that a boat with a boom kicker doesn't need topping lift."

Yes and maybe no... the topping lift has 2 functions.

1) Hold the boom up while the main is slacked. (for reefing and stowing sail)
2) Lift the boom in very light air to let the main inflate.

Dunno if a boom kicker does job number 2 as well as a topping lift.

"confused but my set up is a line that is not fed through the mast but rather"

That is an alternative arrangement... it has an advantage over the 'single line to the boom' arrangement in that it lets you adjust the boom by handling one line rather than needing to hold the end of the boom up with one hand while securing the toopping lift with the other.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 10:49:33

Gary probably has not flaked a sail in 20 years. My topping lift is so my boom can take my weight in a seaway as I am flaking my sail. The BoomKicker does OK for the light ait trim function but will drop your face right to the deck if you lean on it.

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