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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Can I drop my mast while in the water?

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/08/2006 : 15:34:06

Hi All, My boat can go in the water any time now and I would move it to its perminent slip, which is one hour closer to the house....however, the mast step plate I ordered from CD is two to three weeks back ordered. So, I am thinking that I would rather have the boat closer, but don't want to drop the mast while the boat is in the water if it is a dangerous thing to do. Right now it is on the hard. Cheers.

Dennis
No Boat
S.E. Michigan

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SailormanCGA72
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 15:37:11

I have lowered my mast while sitting at the dock. The boat rocks a little bit. We compensated by tightening the mooring lines as tight as possible. It can be done with caution.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 15:56:16

I've raised and lowered my mast 8 times in the past year and a half, 7 of those times while on the water.
You would want to do it under the same conditions on the water as you would on a trailer. Calm.
On two occasions, I've lowered and raised in choppy breezy conditions.
There are several good threads on this site, regarding raising and lowering. The single most essential element that I've learned is: Know your rigging.
My C25 is a standard rig, therefore the mast is only 60LBs. Raising and lowering just isn't that big of a deal.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 16:37:17

Of course, bu you do realize it will sink don't you? <JJ>

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 16:44:33

The advantage of doing it on the water is the unit ends up where you can be helping from the dock.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 17:02:16

Dennis,

I always lower and raise my C-25 std. rig mast with the boat in the water. I can't remember ever having done it on the hard.

In the past, I've raised and lowered the mast on a 22' trailer sailer while on the trailer at the ramp. The potential fall from deck to parking lot looked like it would be a whole lot worse than falling overboard while docked.

Just keep a few spares on board for all non-captive hardware which has to be tinkered with during the mast raising and lowering process!

Splash!

(And that's good advice no matter where you plan on messing with the mast.)

-- Leon Sisson

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 18:06:54

Dennis,

A lot of marinas, including mine, have a gin pole that can only be used while the boat is in the water. A friend of mine, who slips on the Clinton River, is always launched (C30) with the mast down because the travel lift rig doesn't allow launching with the mast up. After he's put in the water, he motors over to the gin pole well.

Check with your marina, or other nearby marinas, they may have the same setup.

Edited by - dlucier on 05/08/2006 18:07:34

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 19:02:47

Dennis, that is the only way I am allowed to raise and lower my mast. Boats kept on jack stands may not be kept with the stick in. We have jack stands so the club will not even pull our boat until we drop the mast.

They have a really nice mast hoist, but other than that its tie the boat off really well and put it up and down while on the water.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 19:15:21

I made the A Frame, back the boat in the slip, lower the mast backwards using genoa winch, catch it with a mast crutch on the dock, do the repairs, back up same way. Pretty easy. 3 people job.

We're all saying its not hard at the dock. In the water, at anchor or a mooring I'd say its near impossible.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2006 : 19:20:51

Hi All, based on all your responsed, I called the marina and told them to put the boat in the water....so I guess I am splashing this week. Thanks for all your input. Cheers.

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tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 23:46:37

Jim, raising the mast at anchor or on a mooring is certainly posible. I have done it more than once. Always in calm water. Often we arrive at our cruising grounds after dark. We launch the boat, motor to our slip or anchoage and go to sleep. Then I rig the boat in the morning calm.

Edited by - tmhansen on 05/14/2006 18:03:04

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2006 : 10:48:09

If you rig up in the water, it is extremely important to make SURE than the mast is well-braced against side-sway. Of course you also have to brace the mast while raising on the hard, but with the boat on the trailer you don't have to worry about powerboat wakes suddenly rocking the boat 20 degrees. Never take it for granted that just because the water is calm when you begin the process that it will STAY calm for the entire hour or more that a mast raising evolution could require. Bracing the mast against sideways movement is the second most important consideration after making sure that your basic lifting rig is strong enough. Also important: Plan out the whole process step-by-step in advance, and rehearse your helpers on exactly what needs to be done to accomplish the task, and especially what to do if an unplanned glitch rears it's ugly head. Of course you should try to make sure in advance that there are no glitches, but better plan for some just in case. The most likely type of glitch is that a shroud or the backstay will snag on some piece of deck hardware. If you have enough helpers available, you should assign someone whose only task is to continuosly scan the whole operation, looking for snags, excessively tight or loose bracing lines, lines or electrical wires too close to the mast step that might get caught and crushed when the mast settles into the upright position, etc. Throughout the mast raising, you don't want any of the rigging to become too tight, as one excessively tight wire on one side will pull the whole mast off balance. Wost case scenario is breaking something by stretching it too tight, then the sudden release of tension causes the mast to swing so far off centerline that the sway bracing lines fail and the mast does down. If you get lucky, this will only tear the tabernackle out of the cabin roof ($50); unlucky will bend the whole mast ($1000 or more).
Personally, I don't like mast raising in the water because it almost always requires use of one the primary winches for lifting power, and this means someone is in the cockpit grinding the winch, right underneath the mast if something goes wrong and it falls uncontrolled. Mast raising on the trailer, using the trailer winch for lifting power, is perhaps more difficult because the boat is sitting inconvieniently high in the air, but it is much safer in the sense that no one is in the line of fire if there's an accident and the mast falls.
Of course the "safest" way is to let the yard workers do it, if you have that option available. Boat yards will generally use a hoist or crane with far more lifting power than a Catalina 25 mast needs. Good luck and be safe. Take your time and STOP LIFTING immediately if you sense that there is suddenly more effort needed at some point - this is probably a sign that there is a snagged shroud or a side brace is too tight.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2006 : 16:24:42

I had a sailboat mechanic and helpers lower and raise my mast while my boat was in it's finger slip. I had the mast rewired, bow/deck light housing replaced, Windex replaced, antennae replaced and anchor light removed and replaced with an OGM CG approved LED Anchor light. I helped a bit in the middle of the effort and also at the end when it came to tuning the mast. The work was a bear to accomplish while in the slip. If I were to do this again, I would have waited till an offseason, dry docked the boat and lowered the mast to then work on it myself. As it is, my boat is almost back to normal again. I still have to get the antenna deck fitting to have the VHF hooked up and also a new deck fitting for the wires to the mast lights. But I can sail and was out yesterday. Right now, the mast wires are hooked up directly to the cabin wires with crimped fittings and a globs of 3M 5200 sealant. Having just come back from a business trip, apparently the mechanic did not have the appropriate deck fittings. So...lesson two is...get all replacement parts first before starting the job or...drydocking during the winter is again a good thing to do sine there is plenty of time to square things away. (I am going to check with Catalina Direct and see if they have exact replacement deck fittings for the antenna and mst lights.)

Getting back to lowering/raising mast in finger slip. It took two to get it down and that was with experienced workers and no special props. But the mechanic underestimnated the effort and should have had 3 to do it safely. Luckily, it was lowered with no major incidents. It took 3 to get it back up. Only casualty was that they removed my solar panel from the stern rail and placed it in the cockpit. Someone stepped on one of the support brackets and bent it. I straightened it out as best I could without bringing it back home to do it in a vise. Rehooked up the panel and it was fine.

I have a large finger slip - 32 ft. Even so, we had to reorient the boat in the slip with the mast down, so we would not create a hazard with the mast sticking out onto the main dock. So...that is something to think about.

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saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 20:55:15

Like the sometimes retarded eager beaver I am, I attempted to step the mast on my Capri 25 alone while it was in the slip..............I am glad noone was around to see the debacle. Soon after I conceeded my idoiocy and called my new crewmen to bail me out. With the water as low as it is against the height of the slip deck (3.5'), the crewman had an 8' height advantage above deck to pull the spinnaker halyard while I walked the mast upright. I will do the reverse next week when I replace all of the halyards.......... It is actually easier this way, but I have learned a humbling lesson.

MJ

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