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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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LED's Question

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SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/15/2006 : 12:30:02

I just received two 36 ct LED's and tried to instal them in the existing cabin lights. No go! The base of the new lamp seems a bit too long and I can not get the new lamp to lock in place. I picked up a two wire recptacles from an auto parts place and it works with that base. My question is: Are the stock cabin lights wire with one or two wires?

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 13:32:27

Hi Scott,

I replaced the stock light fixtures in my boat with brass ones ... each fixture had two wires.

<font color="red">CAUTION:</font id="red"> Take this with a grain of salt, because I'm very elecrically-challenged.

I'm pretty sure that, since the cabin lights are all D/C, there is double-strand wire going to all of the cabin lights (as the wiring schematic in the manual depicts).

If someone else chimes in and proves that I don't know what I'm talking about, I'll edit this so my comment magically disappears.

Let us know how it turns out ... good luck!

Edit: Here is a link to the schematic [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/owners11.gif"]Wiring diagram[/url]

Edited by - Buzz Maring on 05/15/2006 13:36:30

dgabel
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 00:10:54

All the lights, in fact, all the electrical devices, in the Catalina have 2 wires ging to them. You have to have them so that electric current can get to the device and then back to the battery.

Please note that using an LED lamp means you have to observe proper polarity. If you install the lamp in your new base, and wire the base into the circuit, and the lamp does not light, try switching the wire connections. Diodes, including light-emitting ones, let current flow in only one direction. If the diode does not light, then it usually means the diode is installed so that it's stopping current, rathen than allowing it to flow.

Dave Gabel
Walkure
1979 fin keel, sail # 1484

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 05:39:28

Dave,

I found your comment regarding polarity and LEDs...interesting. I guess theri are LEDs that in fact work the way you described but...there are definitely other LEDs that make no difference which wire is hooked up to the negative and positive.

I just replaced my anchor light with an OGM 2NM CG approved anchor light. There are many anchor light LEDs that come built with many LEDs in the housing to produce the 2NM requirement for an anchor light. My LED anchor light, at first glance, looks as though there is no lightbulb in the housing. But it has one small LED mounted in it and it produces the 2NM as it is also CG approved. The OGM LED wires are not polarity dependent - can be hooked up either way to the positive and ground wires. The anchor light also has a photo-electric cell to turn it off when the sun comes up.

Anyway....if i replace the cabin lights w/LEDs, I guess I will make sure to read the instructions to see if the wires have to be hooked up paying attention to polarity.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 08:03:16

Is the led mounted in an intensifying lens? I have a small Garrity led lantern which uses only one led that is magnified by a vertical tube lens and produces a surprizing amount of light.

I haven't yet, but will use it in conjunction with the mast mounted anchor light as a deck level light on the burgee halyard.

btw, I sent a request to the coast guard for interpretation of acceptability of using an anchor light similar to what cyclist are using that yields a fluxuating intensity.

It took a couple of weeks to get a reply and then the reply avoided answering the question. The reply drifted away from the question and quoted rules such as one that says strobe lights were unacceptable, which I all ready knew and then referred to a requirement that an anchor light be all around and unbroken, and not confusing with any other navigation or emergency lights.

I can read the rules and wanted an interpretation, but I guess interpreting is not within the scope of the person answering the mail. So, I'm left to draw my own conclusion, which may or may not be the same that the Coast Guard would conclude, that a fluxuating intensity is different from a strobe or flashing light which has a distinctive on off pulse and that such a light would be unbroken and does not fit the pattern of an emergency beacon and would fit the rule.

Is my conclusion errant?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 10:20:16

LED = Light Emitting Diode, Diodes are polarity dependant. If there is an LED device that is not polarity dependant then it must have a switching gate to detect and provide correct polarity. Seems like an unlikely design enhancement but it is certainly possible. This has interesting stuff.
http://www.vega.co.nz/assets/pdf%20files/vlb42_broc.pdf

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 11:33:36

Arlyn,

I am not sure if my LED has an intensifying lens but it is rated at 2NM and uses between .13 and .20 amps depending which of their literature you read. Supposedly lasts 1000s and 1000s of hours supposedly never needing replacement.

Frank,

I did a lot of checking for LEDs before I purchased my anchor light. But I do not recall seeing the New Zealnad Mfrs products before.

In regards to the polarity, my LED must have a switching circuit or whatever because as I said it is not polarity dependent. It is hi-tech with a bunch of micro-gizmos on the circuit board below the LED. It should have added benefits like polarity independent - It certainly cost enough.

Edited by - on

SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 11:41:03

I went out to the local auto parts dealer and bought a cheap recepticle. The lights work when I hook them up to the battery direct. I'm thinking that the wires are crossed somewhere. That is tonights project. Thanks for the responses...

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 12:16:22

Larry, does it come with a liftime warranty (including lightning damage)

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 13:51:32

Arlyn,

It comes with a 5 year warranty.
https://secure.orcagreen.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16142&cat=0&bestseller

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 15:41:19

nice looking light, Larry. Cheaper than what I paid for an LED anchor light a couple of years ago. One of the advantages of a strong LED is the blue/white light will work as a great beacon in a crowded anchorage.

I wouldn't use a Davis light for an anchor light.

I hooked up some cabin LED lights incorrectly and they didn't light up, until I learned that they do indeed have polarity (at least these do) and now they work fine.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 16:52:22

Frank,

Since you also have an '89 Cat 25, what brand/model cabin LEDs did you use ? I guess my concern with replacing cabin LEDs is that it the new light (LED) fixture will not fit the footprint of the existing cabin light. I know that there are work-arounds...just that the harder the job, then the more likely that the project will remain on the backburner. If it's a relatively easy swap and looks fine after installed, then maybe I would get interested in doing an upgrade sooner rather than later.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 18:08:02

I plan to eventually put some of these lights in Swimmer:

http://alpenglowlights.com/

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 18:22:58

From How Stuff Works...

[url="http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led1.htm"]How Light Emitting Diodes Work[/url]

Edited by - on

SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2006 : 12:42:17

Flipped the wires last night and BANG! the lights work! Thanks for the advise. Now to scape up another 50 bucks and get two more sets to replace the cabin light and the one in the head.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2006 : 14:12:35

Hey Larry,
I haven't taken out any old lights. Left them in place.
I have added lots of new lights. Two xenon lights and about 6 LED lights. 4 of my new LED lights aren't worth a darn, as they have only 3 bulbs each in a small gooseneck. OK for background lighting only. I have a couple of 12 light LED's which are better, but need to replace some with brighter lights.
One small Xenon light is above the stove and swivels, the other Xenon is mounted on the starboard bulkhead in the main cabin, and is on a long flexible goosneck. You can read by it, or point it into a cooler.
I read somewhere that the best Lumen per amps used is with a flourescent light.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2006 : 16:28:19

In my experience the UV output of the florescent bulb attracts a lot of bugs.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2006 : 22:03:59

I just installed two led strips in the main salon of my 82 WK SR. I got them at an auto parts store and they are intended to go undernieth the cars running boards and are sealed against the elements in a vinyl tube, so I figured they would work great in a damp environ. Each is about 36" long with twelve LEDs in each and the pair was about $50, with hardware included, which seemed less than what you would pay at WM. I added a small microswitch and wired them into the power that feeds the round cabin lights so they work seperatly. I tucked them neatly in he corner where the hull meets the cabin roof. There is a space there about 1 1/4" wide where these fit perfectly. The light washes down the hull wall and adds a nice light to the salon without you having to stare into the stock cabin light while trying to cary on a conversation with someone sitting under it. It's a nice addition.
P.S. These LEDs do require the proper polarity and Frank's comment on the fact that these are diodes seems right. I wonder if the anchor light of Larry's might have been a neon bulb??

Paul

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2006 : 22:48:11

Paul,

My anchor light is definitely an LED. LEDs apparently come in different lumens/brightness. This one LED in the bottom of the anchor light housing is enough to get the CG approval for 2NM brightness. I think OGM also sells an LED that will go 3NM and they also have one with other functions - strobe, etc.. The reason why my LED is not polarity dependent is because it must have an automatic switching circuit (or something of that nature) built into the circuit board. The circuit board also has a photo-diode that automatically turns the light off when daylight appears in the morning. I guess if one does not wake up at the crack of dawn , having that photo-diode winds up saving a bit more amps during the early morning hours before one would normally turn off the anchor light at the switch panel. The OGM Anchor light is pretty sophisiticated compared to some others that are on the market. Some Mfrs have a bunch of LEDs mounted in the housing to get the 2NM. I guess there are pro/con to each, however, what narrowed my search was that the OGM light has the documentation that it is CG approved. Some others state they are good for 2NM but do not indicate they are CG approved. Very few state the CG approval.

OGM also sells other LED lights. They have them for the running lights as well. But unlike the existing bow light that has one lightbulb and a red/green combo lens, the OGM running light and also one made by Lopolight, have multiple red and green LEDs. The OGM running lights are actually two light housings that have to be mounted. The Lopolight, which would be my first choice, has all the LEDs mounted along the half circle housing. But both companies have a whooping price for the bow mounted running lights. Something like over $300 to take the place of the existing bow running light. That cooled my jets off of making that purchase.

The case for replacing a non-working original anchor light with an LED one is a little bit easier to make since it is about $129, still expensive, but has the potential for never needing replacement, don't have to climb the mast or lower it and if spending overnighters on the boat, it really cuts down on the amps. The original bow running light does use more amps than an LED replacement but at a whopping replacement cost, the original lighbulb is easy to replace since it is easy to access and oftentimes, if using the running lights at night it oftentimes followed by running the motor to get back into the marina so the battery is being charged (but maybe for only a short time).

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