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raulpou
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144 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/19/2006 : 20:27:36

To those of you who trailer, I have a question! How do you deal with the "swaying" that can and has led to some fishtailing? This happened to me a few weekends ago and having a case of the fishtails can really "pucker" you up, if you know what I mean.

Raul

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 20:30:55

Check your tire pressures on the trailer and slow down.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 20:45:17

Figure out the weight on the tongue. According to all I have read, it should be about 7-10% of the total trailed weight.

When you search the forum you'll find this topic very popular, I guess no one has done a tech tip on the subject due to legal liablity reasons.. :)

Paul

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 20:59:04

More tongue weight and less speed. I pull at about 60mph, anything more and I get the sway. It never fails, if I start down a long hill, about thirty 18 wheelers will pass me making the trailer swerve more.

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raulpou
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144 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 21:09:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 Check your tire pressures on the trailer and slow down.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes SIR! As for the tongue weight how can I check that? Also, is there a anti sway set up for surge break trailers?

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 22:43:23

Here's how I figured out our tongue weight - without a scale!
<center>

</center>

Make a beam from an 8' 4x4 (green)
and balance it on another 4x4 (built up higher with additional 4x4s for safety such that
a - b = 6'
b - c = 2'
Now the lever has a ratio of 3/1
ie. 3 times the weight on a = 1 times the weight on c.

If you assume your boat weighs 4,000lb
then you would 10% = 400lbs. on c.
So you would need 1/3 of 400lbs on a to lift c.
ie 133lbs on a would lift 400lbs on c.

If you don't know the weight of the rig, (boat, trailer, all the fixings) then weight the rig at a weigh station. (If you have a wood mill or other type of heavy supply factory nearby they may have their own weigh station.)

But if you think about it, there is an ideal tongue weight of between 7 & 10% that is almost 50% variation. (3/7 to be more precise)

Figure the weight on the tongue, then figure out the total as a percent.

eg. if the tongue is 400lbs, then at 7% the trailed weight would be 2,800lbs, at 10% it would be 4,000lbs.
if it's 500lbs, then the range is 3,500lbs to 5,000lbs.

We used to get tasked with oddball puzzles like that in the Navy. It's just plain fun to play with numbers like that. Without doubt, the best route is to start by weighing the rig.

FYI, when we pulled JD with the chevy blazer, it was just on the limit of capacity and we kept speed below 55mph as it got a bit hairy above that.. didn't realize how bad till we got the F150 4x4 v8Triton 5.4L beasty!

Paul.

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Waterboy
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204 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 22:44:16

Raul,

The way to control the trailer is to have a tow rig as big or bigger than the boat. I've used an F150 and F350 dually, and the difference is just huge. If you're going to use a halfton or less size tow vehicle, slow down. Anticipate. There's no way a small tow rig will react the way a big one will. Again, slow down.

Greg, with 25K miles towing a C250 WB

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2006 : 22:55:46

I would have to keep looking back just to make sure the rig was still there if we pulled JD with an F350

Paul.

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paulb
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 13:37:50

Raul, The wheel base of your tow vehicle has a lot to do with stability and sway. The longer the wheelbase the less sway you will have. The weight of the tow vehicle is also a factor, but not as much as wheelbase.

To check your tongue weight, just use an ordinary bathroom scale and a block or two. The ideal is according to experts is 7-10%, but not to exceed 200lbs.

I tow with a Dodge Dakota quad cab V8 4X4 using load equalizers and have exactly 200lbs tongue weight. It tows nicely at speeds to 65.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 14:18:55

Height of the hitch also plays a factor... the water ballast enjoys a ball height of 17.5 inches.

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2006 : 19:48:26

Here is a link to a description of the hitch that I use, that seems to avoid sway problems, etc. on my wing keel:

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11159&SearchTerms=equalizing"]Equalizing Hitch[/url]

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 12:12:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 Height of the hitch also plays a factor... the water ballast enjoys a ball height of 17.5 inches.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Arlyn are you measuring to the top of the ball?

I have two hitches, a work hitch and a drop down hitch that puts the ball height at about 17 inches. When I went to Pensacola last month, I forgot to switch out my hitches. During the rush to get going I hooked up to my work hitch instead of the drop hitch. Reading your post just reminded me of it. I just checked the height to the top of the ball for my work hitch and it was at 19.5. I guess that explains why I had more sway this trip than ever before. I recall on past trips I could run 70-75 and not know it was back there. This last trip if I got over 60 it was white knuckle time. I got to remember to switch hitches next time.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 06/23/2006 12:16:09

Arlyn Stewart
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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 12:49:01

Tom... 17.5" is at the center of the ball.

My problem was opposite yours. When buying a new truck, it set lower than the previous and the trailer didn't handle as well. I think my tongue loading at that lower ball height was too low. After turning the hitch ball over and inverted the hitch in the receiver, which had the effect of raising the hitch three inches, tracking was corrected and hobby horsing decreased.

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 12:58:18

Use an equilizer hitch with sway control.

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Waterboy
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204 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 14:56:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 I would have to keep looking back just to make sure the rig was still there if we pulled JD with an F350

Paul.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's actually a nice feeling ... except at the gas pump. Both 350's have been duallies as well. Sway? What's that?

Edited by - Waterboy on 06/23/2006 14:58:51

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 18:19:21

Actually, if you have diesel dually, the fuel is not too bad...gets much better mileage than a big gasser. Last Tues I ordered a 2007 Silverado, 1 ton, crew cab, dual rear wheels, Duramax diesel with the Allison transmission.

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 18:32:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by At Ease
 Actually, if you have diesel dually, the fuel is not too bad...gets much better mileage than a big gasser. Last Tues I ordered a 2007 Silverado, 1 ton, crew cab, dual rear wheels, Duramax diesel with the Allison transmission.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sweet ride!

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Keith D.
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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2006 : 20:35:01

I have found that the tongue weight has to be 200 lbs. to do 55 and 250 to do 65 mph. My trailer came to me with only 40 lbs. of tongue weight and I have been bring it up each time I go out. As the tongue weight goes up there is less sway and I can go faster. Probably a good weight would be 300 lbs. The average weight of a 250 wb and trailer is around 5200 lbs. And 7% of that is 364 lbs. of tongue weight. 10% would be of course 520 lbs. A lot of hitches and balls will give you a max of 500 lbs. So I wouldn’t go that high.

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StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2006 : 10:53:06

I tow my '84 25 with a Toyota Land Cruiser. The tongue weight was excessive so I moved my axles about 8" forward. This put them more directly under the keel and seemed to help the distribution problem some. I also went to U-Haul and bought the longest drop ball mount they had and inverted it in the receiver. This raised the tongue several inches and again, seemed to help but we were still squatting. I trailered hundreds of miles each year on the Interstate system to get from Kentucky to Florida without incident at speeds up to 75 mph.

I was ignorant to proper towing equipment at that time but in my current job I learned all about towing. Kevin's setup, or one of many like it is the way to go. A weight distributing hitch moves the tongue weight toward the front of the tow vehicle and toward the rear of the trailer. This way you have much less sag at the ball and the tow vehicle should be level as if there were no trailer. This is important because most of your braking is from your front wheels. Safety first !!!

Concerning the sway that occurs when a large vehicle goes by there is an additional towing device made for this. They're called anti-sway control and they mount to the hitch system. When preparing for a long highway tow you would tighten the friction controls to reduce the amount of sway and when city driving (turns and slow) you loosen the friction. They can be mounted alone or one on each side. There are even hitch systems that combine the weight distribution with the sway control. We're planning to tow down to San Carlos this fall to cruise the Sea of Cortez and I will be using one of these systems.

God luck and Happy Motoring,

Edited by - on

Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 08:18:10

Just Got back from towing "Leprechaun" to the Nationals, We tow with a Tahoe and use the Automatic 4WD and also just had electric brakes put on both axles..Made towing a breeze Cost approx. $500.00 to convert from surge butthat is the deductable from my insurance ..Not to mention all the other possible issues! We have been there with the swaying trailor=NOT FUN. We traveled at approx. 55-60 MPH even with the SEMIS flying past we had no problems.. even in high wind going to Cleveland.
The motor was off the stern and sails were in the Vberth.

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