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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Tacking with ST1000 Tiller Pilot

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/24/2006 : 19:54:13

I'm enjoying my recently installed Raymarine ST1000 tiller pilot. Anyone have any advice for tacking with one of these?

I tried changing course by rapidly pressing the + or - 10 button to come to the new heading and it gives me just the right amount of time to handle the jib sheets. My concern is that the tiller pilot goes all the way to one end of its range or the other and then makes kind of a grinding noise for a few seconds. This doesn't sound like a good thing...

Dave & Deb

Frayed Knot
C-250wk #270

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2006 : 20:31:01

The autotack function is supposed to work when you press the 1 and 10 buttons simultaneously (either red or green, + or -). My fluxgate hasn't been right for several years -- it will hold a single course, but course changes greater than ten degrees get progressively less accurate. So when I tack, I hit standby, lift the tillerpilot off the pin, tack manually, and when settled on the new course, put it back on the pin and hit auto.

The autotack, as I remember, is set at 100 degrees unless you change the setting yourself.

Brooke

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2006 : 20:18:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bubba
 My concern is that the tiller pilot goes all the way to one end of its range or the other and then makes kind of a grinding noise for a few seconds. This doesn't sound like a good thing...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, it's not a good thing. That is exactly what blew out my one year old ST1000 and, after sending it in for repair, the repair technician called me personally to say that maxing out the ramrod will inevitably lead to failure of the unit due to its lack of end limit switches. Additionally, he advised to not use the "Autotack" feature for the same reason.

Since the repair, I now tack using the technique that Brooke described so as to not blow out my autopilot again.

Edited by - on

ajski1000
1st Mate

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USA
52 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 07:20:17

A little off topic,

But im interested in getting an auto tiller for my c25. Is this something that will work independent of any other electronics?
How do you guys like it?

Worth ALL the money>?

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2006 : 12:47:51

Yes -- it does need 12v power --and yes. I would look at the Simrad next time instead of the Raymarine.

Brooke

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2006 : 00:19:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ajski1000
 ...im interested in getting an auto tiller for my c25...How do you guys like it?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How do I like it?...I wouldn't leave port without it!

When singlehanding, I use my autopilot virtually every time I leave the slip, but I rarely, if ever, use it when somewhen else is aboard. For me, an autopilot ranks right up there with roller furling as a must have luxury.

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 19:09:53

I somehow completely missed the auto-tack function mentioned in the ST1000 manual. Guess I'd better read it again to see what else I missed.

While posting my concern to the forum, I also sent a note to Raymarine asking if there was a way to tack and mentioning my concern about the noise. Here's their reply:

"Yes, by pressing the plus 1 and plus 10 together for starboard and the minus 1 and minus 10 together for port, the noise you are hearing is the pilot going into current limit, this is normal when at the end of the stops."

Don, is your's the ST1000 Plus? Just wondering if there could be differences in our two units. Then again, the noise I've been hearing doesn't sound like my idea of a limit switch...

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 19:56:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"... the noise you are hearing is the pilot going into current limit, this is normal when at the end of the stops..."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">"Going into current limit" my @$$!!!

I have the ST-2000 Plus. There are no limit switches. As for "current limiting", when the ram hits the end of its travel the current draw increases drastically, and the unit trembles with the strain as though it were having a muscle spasm or brain seizure. I strongly suggest wiring an autopilot through its own dedicated, easy to reach, circuit breaker. Mine in on the recommended capacity breaker, and the breaker sometimes trips when the tiller pilot ram reaches the end of its travel.

My experience has been that the auto-tack feature is about worthless. I also use the tacking technique Brooke describes.

In speaking with the factory techs, I got the impression the optimum radius from pintles to ram is a lot more flexible than implied by the installation instructions. With a slightly larger than minimum size autopilot (such as the ST-2000), the pin on the tiller could be probably installed further aft, resulting in faster course corrections and a wider arc of rudder travel before stalling the auto pilot motor.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 19:58:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bubba
 ...the noise you are hearing is the pilot going into current limit, this is normal when at the end of the stops."

Don, is your's the ST1000 Plus? Just wondering if there could be differences in our two units. Then again, the noise I've been hearing doesn't sound like my idea of a limit switch...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, I have the ST1000 Plus.

As to the noise, yeah, my autopilot squealed a bit when it reached the end of its travel, but that squeal started turning into a growl and before too long, the ram rod would come to a grinding halt at random spots along its entire travel while the autopilot squealed away. As I mentioned earlier, the service technician called to tell me that allowing the autopilot to squeal and grind at the end of the ram rods travel will over time cause the unit to fail.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 19:26:35

Thanks Don. I hope other sailors considering this tiller pilot read this thread. Maybe the Simrad model is better...

I had really hoped to use this thing for tacking while single-handing. I have a 250 with the winches on the cabin top - which means a single-hander has to be in two places at once. Maybe someday I'll be able to afford an extra set of winches for the cockpit combings, but I just spent my allowance on the tiller pilot.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 21:16:26

I have the simrad st10 and it too exhibits the grinding sound but only during a slow turn caused by higher wind speeds. I think it is very important to follow the installation instructions as to the distance the pin needs to be from the rudder pintals center point. Too far away and you will not get the turning speed you need to tack before the tiller pilot reaches its furthest point and starts the grind. I installed mine within 2 inches of the recommended radius and have little problem with it reaching the end. I am going to move it 2 more inches closer to the pivot point and it should travel even faster. I've seen pictures of tiller pilots installed on 250's here in the forum that are too far away from the pivot point. Check your distances again. I will post some pictures of my installation soon to show how I got around the lack of space on the side for the pilot to be properly installed. My tiller pilot has plenty of power to support it closer to the pivot point. Too close and you may find your heading trying to "hunt" back and forth, so too much of a good thing can get you in trouble also. I think the instructions have it just right.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 21:18:11

Hmmmmm, I just turned "Admiral"

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 22:04:55

Nothing but good things to say about my TP10. Works as advertised. Tack function works like a champ, no unusual noises.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 06/29/2006 22:10:00

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 10:13:23

Turk's point is right on target. The ST1000 instructions say to mount the pin 18" from the rudder pintle centerline. When my auto tack was working, I didn't have the grinding problem. However, now that the fluxgate gets . . . creative . . . the autotack function sometimes will push the tiller to the limit and grind there. Other times the autotack will only swing the bow about 50 degrees. So I tack manually.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 20:14:16

I borrowed Tom's idea and used an antenna rail mount. It allowed me to position the tiller pilot within 1/10 of an inch of spec. I coated the brass thimble with epoxy and dropped it right in.
(That black line of the left is a dock line.)

Edited by - Bubba on 06/30/2006 20:15:25

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2006 : 10:56:57

Yesterday, my ST1000 Plus autopilot gave up the ghost,...again!

The ram rod now only moves in one direction so here we go again to the Raymarine service center...I think the next time I'm in the market for an autopilot, the Raymarine brand will not be on my short list.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2006 : 12:23:56

Me too. Yesterday stopped working. Suspect the fluxgate compass. This is the second time this has happened to my ST1000 plus. Costs a boat unit to get it repaired!

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2006 : 17:30:30

Tacking with a tillerpilot: If (and since your) autopilot essentially overloads when you use the "autotack" function, and instead of disconnecting the rod from the tiller, why not just tack by hitting the +10 button HALF of what a tack would be, and then when its starting to straighten out, hit the other 5 times? Although our old Navico had the dial (I'm dating myself), our Autohelm 3000 on our C34 exhibits some of the same tendencies sometimes, and that's what we do. I know you'll be "busy" tacking, but try the 5 plus 5 since you'll be doing it as the bow comes around and you're switching jib sheets. And it should be easier than removing the rod from the tiller, too. If the 5 + 5 sends the rod too far, then make it a 3 + 4 + 3 or any other variation that works for you.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 07/04/2006 17:32:51

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