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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Electrical Schematic

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StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/28/2006 : 17:16:27

I posted a while back looking for anyone who could share their wiring diagrams or electrical schematics. I have since drawn my own up. I am a complete dummy when it comes to electricity (I should buy Casey's book).

If anyone would care to comment on this plan I would love the input. Remember this is just a plan. The wiring I have now is a PO modified version of the original schematic. I want to redo as much of it as I can get to for a safer, more user friendly system. If this seems like overkill, I will be doing 1-2 week sails in the Sea of Cortez as well as overnights on Lake Pleasant.

Let me know what you think

Fair winds,

Andy, Breakin' Wind, 1984 C25 SK SR

Edited by - StSimon on 06/28/2006 17:32:19

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 19:09:27

Working my way through it.
On our schematic, we dropped the idea of the Transfer switch, instead we are putting a second power cord onboard to connect from the genny to the power connector, didn't seem worthwhile spending them bucks (heck, we spent them all on the A/C and the isntallation of the 120v system :)

paul

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 20:15:49

Thanks for the input Paul.

As I mentioned I am electrically challenged but a friend of mine is an RV electronics whiz. He suggested the transfer switch. He explained that it somehow magically switched from one source to the other automatically. We have two of them laying around so I planned to put it into the system.

Anything else wrong you might have noticed or any additional suggestions?

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 22:44:59

Arlyn, Bruce, Bryan, Buzz, Dave, Derek, Don, Douglas, Duane, Frank, J.B., Jim, Laurence, Leon, Oscar, Steve, Tom, Val, and ANY OTHER EXPERTS...

I need your help !!!

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 22:51:58

Andy ... trust me on this ... I'm the last guy you would want to evaluate your schematic ... I am electrically challenged

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2006 : 22:56:23

Andy,

I wouldn't be much help either since my boat still has pretty much the stock 12V/120V setup.

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 12:11:58

My RV buddy found a couple of problems that have been fixed.

Any other input?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:05:59

Your politically correct list fun. You have drawn up a unique diagram that meets your needs and the rest of us have different needs... so we are pretty much watching you to hear how it turns out.

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StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 17:34:25

You're right Frank. I guess I was hoping someone would punch holes in it before I went forward. I did get some advice on the Trailer Sailer BB though. Here's where it stands now. I'll keep you posted as it comes together.

Thanks

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 18:09:32

Hi Andy,

This may sound stern, but picture me saying it with a benevolent grin.

I have completely wired two or three boats from wish lists to working systems. I have not found any magic easy solution to properly designing and installing a boat electrical system without knowing what you're doing. As Frank pointed out, each person has their own set of requirements and priorities for their boat's electrical system. That's where you need to start, along with getting, studying, and really understanding a couple books on sailboat electrics.

Key concepts include:<ul><li>What do you want the electrical system to do?
Create a detailed energy budget for each pattern of use you require. (Day sailing, weekending, one to two week vacations, whatever. It's really up to you to define.)</li>
<li>Understand the special requirements of marine electrical installations. A boat is not a car or a house.

</li>
<li>Establish some quality standards early on, and maintain them. (Fuses or circuit breakers? Crimped connections or soldered? Spade/bullet friction connectors or ring and screw terminals? That sort of thing.) And by the way, there are 'building codes' for this type of work. It would benefit you to get a copy and study them.</li>
<li>Build your electrical system in your head again and again, adding detail, anticipating and solving potential problems, and writing down (or typing) notes.</li>
<li>If you're taking on a major rewiring job (which most C-25s do need by now), plan to do it in logical and practical stages.</li></ul>Here's a link to a previous discussion of a similar topic:
[[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10946"]Is there a sailboat wiring book for dumbies?[/url]]

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 19:05:00

Please buy Casey's book. I'll loan you mine if you cannot afford one.

Please have lots of respect for 110 volt AC current.

You can even get hurt with 12 volt DC

Please get familiar with ABYC standards for boat wiring.

While you are ordering from Amazon through this website, pick up Nigel Calder's book too.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2006 : 21:42:54

Andy,

The one thing I was considering and believe same concern would hold true with your 12 volt schematic is that there may be a better way to hook up the battery bank. I presently have my solar controller hooked up thru a 12 volt accessory plug and leave my battery switch in the "Both" position all the time. That way, the solar controller charges both batteries. However, by leaving the switch in the both position, and having one solar controller, it is possible that if one battery is weaker than the other, the weaker battery can drag down the good battery. I am not that electrically smart so I do not understand fully under what conditions this happens but I gather that it would be better to have the solar controller charging just one of the batteries and have the outboard charge the other one or have the outboard and the solar controller charging one battery one week and then the other the next week by alternating each week the battery switch positon from 1 to 2 and then back to 1. Another thought is to another solar controller (and panel) and then have each panel independently charge each battery or...and this is where I have been doing some reading up on lately is using a battery combiner which will keep the batteries connected when charging but will separate them from each other when not charging. It seems a battery isolator also does this but uses more electricity to do it's job. The combiner uses virtually no electricity when not charging but when charging, it can use ~.25 amps which could be a significant amount if one has a 10 or 20 watt solar panel.

After considering all of this and the costs associated, I think it may be better to just live with the system as it is and if the batteries eventually die, just replace them. Either that or get another solar panel to separate the batteries from each other - Using one for the house loads and the other mainly for starting the motor or other miscellaneous uses. This would then require two battery switches so that each battery could be independent of the other but allow with a "Both" or "Combiner" position could then use either battery to start the motor or run the lights if the other battery goes dead.

I am sure someone else could explain this better. Rcmd also look into the uses of a battery isolator and/or a battery combiner (on the web) to see why these are sometimes used and then consider if it is best to utilize if redoing the electrical setup on your boat.

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 10:42:32

Thanks guys.

I do plan to learn all I can before tackling this job. I'm certain I will learn still more in the process.

I had an isolator in a previous drawing but took it out as I can still isolate each battery with the OFF/1/2/BOTH switch. It was a K.I.S.S move.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 12:13:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gloss
 Please buy Casey's book.

Please have lots of respect for 110 volt AC current.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hear, hear. Faulty 12V wiring will be a fire hazard while faulty 120 wiring will try to kill you without the middle men (fire&smoke).

A few quick notes:
<ul><li>because of the high currents involved with 12V circuits, you should do as much point to point as possible and avoid cascading trough a number of distribution blocks. On our boat we ran one "+" 8AWG wire from the selector switch to the distribution panel and one "-" 8AWG wire from one of the battery negatives to the distribution panel.</li><li>Make sure your friend verifies that your three charging sources will not damage each other.</li><li>Be prepared to waste wire and connectors learning and getting things right (I've been doing this for 30 years. When we rewired Enka I threw away a complete harness I built for the panel and started again because it did not fit right)</li><li>Understand how much current each circuit will use and size your wires accordingly (again, you need a reference book)</li><li>Here is a link to what we did, it has a schematic http://mattcj.dyndns.org/~ilnadi/gallery/album21</li></ul>

BTW, I have a excel file for calculating wire and fuse sizes, in case anybody is interested in the geek side.

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