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Next Years Nationals?????????

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wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/30/2006 : 10:11:30

For the last three years, when the Nationals were held, we were given the vinue for the up coming next year events. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as of to date we have not even had one bid! I would like to make the following recommendatios:

1. Unless someone in the next 30 days comes in with a bid, I would recommend that next years Nationals be held back in Cleveland conjoined with Cleveland Race Week. This an annual event and most of the racers that showed up this time would gladdly go back next year.

2. In the past we have always put to much emphasis on finding sponsers to provide door prices for the participants, which in my opinion is what holds volunteers back from getting involved. Finding sposers is very problomatic! Lets put less effort into sponserships and more effort into Racing and helping our members who want to learn how to race get involve. All the beer can wrappers in the world will not make a race series better.

3. If we hold the race at Cleveland next year we don't have to ask Duane to be the Race Committee Chairman. With events such as this our Nationals can be coordinated by phone and emails as long as EYC will let us return, (which I feel will not be a problem because of the dual entry fee requirements). Thus we can solicit a non-local member to take over as RCC. (I will volunteer if needed)

4. Finally the alterior motive for my saying this is that eventually someone on the west coast, east coast, or parts else where will eventually get pissed off enough to put in a bid to run the next show.

We have not select a venue for next year so therefore I feel we should return to Cleveland where we know we can have our nationals and present a great race to our members. I know from experience of attendding the last 6 consecative Nationals that all members need to have these kind of dates well in advance to apply for vaction time, inform the family and coordinate crew. So please lets get this process started, I want to see who thinks they have what it takes to beat me next year and take the National Trophie Home!

Bill Meinert
2003 & 2006 National Champion

Bill Meinert
Commodore
Sailing Longwind #1408

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 11:38:53

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11865&SearchTerms=2007,nationals"]Notice of 2007 Nationals Bid Period, per the by-laws [/url]

Underlined words are a HOT link.

Edited by - on

wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 12:27:38

John those rules are all well and good except for one major issue. It doesn't appear to be working! So I would recommend a fall back plan that is not so formal and limiting. I realize as it is said that there is no guarntee by the ASS that there will be a race, if that is the case it sounds like any viable plan that is put forth by a member, some very strong due consideration should be given!

Bill Meinert

Edited by - on

saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 12:34:27

I will talk to my local clubs as well as the Lake Michigan Catalina Association to inquire about sponsoring/holding the event either in Grand Haven, or Holland, Michigan. Grand Haven has a 54 transient slips that can be reserved for six months or more in advance, as well as having spectacular accomodations. It would be nice to have the event to coincide with such a prestegious event such as the Queens/Tripp Cup Races, which is taking place today and tomorrow. ???
It is my limited opinion that, if at all possible, a nationals race should be held in more of a central location which may increase participation. My 2 cents. http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10365_10884_18317-44310--,00.html

MJ

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 12:39:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by wmeinert@kconline.com
 John those rules are all well and good except for one major issue. It doesn't appear to be working! So I would recommend a fall back plan that is not so formal and limiting. I realize as it is said that there is no guarntee by the ASS that there will be a race, if that is the case it sounds like any viable plan that is put forth by a member, some very strong due consideration should be given!

Bill Meinert
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

 
Bill,
I hadn’t really considered the rules. I just brought the thread up to renew interest in the discussion and as you can see by my last post on Franks thread I think your suggestion has merit.
Also look at Steve Milby’s post. It might be worth contacting the fleets for interest as well.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 13:09:48

I am pretty certain that we can come back here. I will look into it. If we eliminate the swag as suggested by Bill the cost would be significantly less to enter. CRW provided much of the off shore activities.

dw

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 13:24:54

From a purely selfish reason I would love to see the Nationals at Edgewater Yacht Club again; it's only 2 hours from my home!

In addition, I had an absolute BLAST! If the event is held in Holland or other areas nearby, I would also probably come, but definitely if it is back in Cleveland.

If it's not back in Cleveland, I might go back up just to participate in Cleveland Race Week.

This is assuming that the Edgewater Yacht Club wants to put up with us again. We are pretty slow compared to the overwhelming majority of the other boats racing up there, and I hope we didn't add too much work to the exceptional racing committee up there; Signal, Racer/Chaser, T1/T1 and the rest.

I would love nothing more than to once again be beating close-hauled toward the Crib in the dark, heeled to 20 degrees while the Crib pings at us, trying to keep Nim Bimash and Leprecaun behind us. What the heck is the Crib anyway? For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, come to Nationals in Cleveland (if it is held there) next year. You will absolutely NOT regret it.

And as far as I'm concerned about the door prizes and raffle items, those were the lowest priority for me. While I'm ecstatic I won the raffle for the standing rigging, that was simply icing on the cake. There could have been no freebies and my opinion of the event, club, and race coordinator would have been in no way diminished.

Edited by - Ben on 06/30/2006 13:29:30

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 13:46:37

The Crib is the onld intake for the water supply for Cleveland and most of the rest of northern ohio. It is now a wind monitoring station see below
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/page.cfm?pageID=440

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 13:54:11

Cool! Thanks Duane. That's one mystery put to rest.

Edited by - on

wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 15:55:11

Anywhere in Michigan would be fantastic, New Haven and Muskegon have some of the best facilites and things to do for the families of anywhere in the state. It would be really great to be part of the Catalina Get together in Holland Also as they realy know how to throw a great party!!! "Been there done that" Also McCall Idaho on Lake Pyette has and annual Pyette cup race that I went to last year that was really great too. Come on people lets Race

.

Bill Meinert

Edited by - on

wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 17:17:44

It's a shame nobody has submitted a bid to sponsor next year's regatta yet, and time's-a-wastin to get it in the works. It's important that the event move around, whenever possible, but if someone doesn't submit a proposal soon, I've heard Cleveland would like to have it again, and the people who attended are unanimous in praising the facility and the organizers. We would be fortunate to be able to have it there again.

Awhile ago, I suggested someone contact Fleet 8 on the Chesapeake. Did anyone do that?

I don't know how others feel about it, but I would be unalterably opposed to having it in Cleveland for a third year in a row, and will consider it a major failure of the officers if they don't find a different venue for the 2008 Regatta.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Milby "Captiva Wind II" C&C 35 Landfall

Steves point is very valid!

Bill Meinert

Edited by - on

saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 21:09:29

After I posted my initial response to this post, I immediately contacted Jim Meier from the LMCA Cat 25/250 Fleet. I am currently drawing up a preliminary proposal for venue and organization and will post it to see what kind of feedback I recieve. I may be new to the Cat 25/250 sailing community, but I am a pro at logistics and organization. If there is any interest shown for my proposal then it will be formally submitted by August 1.

MJ

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 22:45:43

Post anything you like. Please submit your preliminary bid to me as the sitting Vice Commodore and the board will work with you to make it happen if possible. Each venue has it's strong points and no two regattas are alike, if you guys like putting on regattas, have a good PRO and maybe a judge if possible then I am sure you could put on a fine championship.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 06/30/2006 22:46:18

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2006 : 23:15:44

Just a note, I am a PRO, my boat does not have a trailer. I might (emphasis on might...wife kids etc) be able to run the races if I can't bring my boat...

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2006 : 03:11:35

Ummm,

I have kept my mouth shut through all of this, BUT.....I know that the 2004 Nationals in Portland was plagued with uncharacteristic lack of AIR...(6 races run; two cancelled) and we have CURRENT issues that make spinnakers a big advantage in going downwind (upriver). That made some folks unhappy, I think, even with a PHRF handicap. Perhaps we should have DOUBLED the PHRF handicap, since our downwind legs are proportionately LONGER because of current.......

BUT...there are stretches of this river that get GREAT air...and EVENINGS might even be a better option.

In 2004 we had 22 boats enter.....the MOST since about 1984 or 5, according to Bill Holcomb.

I "thought" we put on a good party, but maybe not. Nobody has mentioned returning HERE. IF I thought there was interest, I would look into the possibility and try to make the necessary changes to get either another stretch of the river to race, or to race in the evenings. We have had GREAT sailing every night of the series since the end of April.

22 boats ain't bad. We have a BIG fleet of "cruisers", and 7-8 boats that race often and a few more who would come out if they had good crews flying in......

Any comments from those who were here in 2004? (But save the gripes about lack of wind....I KNOW that was a fluke). Ask Derek Crawford...he has raced here and KNOWS it blows!

Gary Bruner
former Fleet Captain of Fleet 94

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2006 : 03:55:37

Gary, by any standard, you hosted an excellent event, and you should submit a bid if you'd like. Your regatta generated more participation than in many years.

So far as I know, there's no requirement that we have a PRO or official Judge at our event (unless someone put such a requirement in our bylaws in the recent rewrite). If a PRO or Judge is unavailable to a local club, they can use the same officials who run their local races, as long as they aren't C25, etc. owners.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2006 : 08:51:19

In evaluating multiple bids a PRO would be significant in establishing the credibility level of a venue, a Judge would simply be icing. The bottom line is we are a bunch of people who love sailing and our boats, and anywhere that submits a bid will be seriously considered. We as an organization provide a financial security blanket for hosting clubs so it is conceivable that a bid would not be accepted but every effort would be made to help an applicant fleet. Gary, having met you and a few of your friends I know it would be worth the trip just to hang with you. People at the Kansas regatta were still talking about your wonderful event. I think it would be great if you submitted a bid.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2006 : 09:25:12

Go for it Gary! We had a great time on the Columbia even with the paucity of wind.

Yes guys, there IS wind on the Columbia. I raced the 6-Pak (a week-long event) with Gary and we seldom saw less than 15k.
Derek

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2006 : 09:52:31

Lemme see what interest there is. I am currently NOT the fleet captain anymore, but I am interested in seeing a good Nationsl, but like the idea of it being moved around a bit rather than repeat to any one site, no matter HOW great it is.......

Gary B.
Encore! #685

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2006 : 10:24:41

We need to get back to thinking about bottom lines - What's really important? The bottom line is that we want to select a site where the promoters can probably expect 6-13 boats to attend, and we want promoters who are sufficiently committed to the project that they'll overcome any obstacles that arise along the way. Everything else is icing on the cake. It would be nice, but not necessary, if it is held in a different quadrant of the country than the last event. It would be nice, but not necessary, if they had nice docks for us, and a clubhouse, and restrooms and showers, and PROs and judges, and hoists and motels and nice restaurants in the vicinity.

The bottom line is, if we can get 6-13 boats there, we'll have a successful event. If there are no docks, we can anchor. If there is no clubhouse, we can erect a tent. If no restrooms, we can rent a couple portable toilets for the weekend. If no showers, we can take duck baths for the weekend, as we often have to do when we're cruising. If no PROS and judges, we can use any experienced race committee. If there are no hoists, we can ramp launch, and if no good restaurants, we can have cookouts.

We need reasonable assurance that we can get 6-13 boats there, but we can be flexible about everything else.

The bylaws were recently rewritten to require solicitation of bids first from a desired area of the country, and if no bid was received, then to solicit bids from anywhere. Those provisions actually discourage bids from most areas of the country, and they tie the hands of the officers. They need to be changed so that everyone who wants to sponsor the event can submit a bid at the same time. The officers can select the best overall bid among all those received. They can choose a preferred area or the nicest facilities, or the most interesting locale, or use any other standard they consider to be important. The bylaws need to give the officers the latitude to do whatever makes sense, and then trust their judgment. They don't usually need a bylaw to force them to do what makes sense.

Edited by - on

wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2006 : 19:43:51

Hey Now that's what I'm talking about!!! It's all about the racing

I look forward to defending my standing and letting as many as who want too, try to take it away. Belive it or not, it is much more stenuious to defend the trophie than to race and try and win it. Keep them bids coming. I will travel to where ever the race takes place. Mexico would be fun!!!

Bill Meinert

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2006 : 14:51:12

Bill, You are awesome! Your willingness to travel to "wherever" to race is admirable, especially with fuel costs what they are.

I have a '78 Ford that I tow with.....MIGHT consider a California Nationals, or Idaho, but NO way would I trust this truck further. Nor could I afford it at 8-9 MPG when towing the boat.

I honestly think that MOST of my prep time for the 2004 Nationals was getting all the "stuff", the giveaways...raffle items, etc. Actually "constipating" on the RACÎNG instead of all the little things would make it much easier on whomever organizes and bids.

My guys are giving feedback now. No one OPPOSED yet, but we know we have issues to deal with: WIND (suggestions for evening races) and the spinnaker issue....Those of us who race seriously out here are flying big chutes because we almost HAVE to to get up river in anything less than 10 knots of breeze, but we are working on the issue.

Not ready for a BID yet, but know we must work fast if we are going to. If NOT, maybe we'd be up for '08?

Did anyone like the little brass "trophies" we gave out, besides the big ones that are "recycled"? I thought they were cool, but did not hear much from the "fleet" about them, BTW.

Anyone who wants to check on them out could see pics from a link on the Fleet 94 website, I am pretty sure. Google it up.

Best to all,

Gary B.
s/v Encore!

Edited by - on

wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2006 : 15:07:02

Gary, those little brass sailboats were great an mine sits in my "special art work caase" where I keep art from all over the world. The little participant plates you gave every one were great too, I placed mine on the aft Port Rail where I keep the rest of them from other races. Every once in awhile some one will comment on them and ask did I realy travel to Oregon for the race? Along with one from Idaho and Kansas. I wish every event would come up with a sticker that we could all put on our boats as participants. Great concept. Gary is there any way we could move your bid up river nearer to the windsurfing gorge? That would be really Cool. Full Sail Ale could be the major sponsor. That is a great little town they have there!!!

Bill Meinert

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2006 : 16:11:27

Bill,

I dunno about moving it. A North Sails rep. here and an acquaintance, hosts a LOT of dinghy events in Cascade Locks, which is our side of Hood River, the home of Full Sail, and probably the town you mean. They've had college championships, 49ers, the whole bit. However, there is a TON of wind there. We would be looking at 30 knots plus, probably. Have an 80% jib and double reefs/foulies?? ;)

There is a LOT of great kite boarding and windsurfing in that neck of the woods. I will give him a call and see what he says about facilities, committees, etc.

I think that much wind would keep a lot of folks home, including the "newbie" locals, I expect.

I know I cannot guarantee great air in Portland, but we USUALLY get a good breeze in the evenings, especially. I have rarely flown my 155 this season; I am using a 135 and sometimes a reef in the main, but we usually race around 6:30 at night. Even in 2004 when it was poor in the afternoons, we had breeze in the evenings, as I recall........I am thinking of that as an option, especially if breeze isn't here in the afternoon......?

It does get dead later in the Summer, like mid August here.

St. Helens, Oregon has great wind, too, but they don't seem to have the facilities, nor the "net-work". SYSCO (the Small Yacht Sailing Club of Oregon), who ran our last regatta in 2004 has already said yes to hosting us again, but they need the Portland area for committee boats/flags/RC, etc.

Not sure what to do. Some locals are already getting pumped up, but haven't heard from all of 'em. I am not going to "push a chain"...that is for sure. Several guys have stated that thought we'd bid for '08.

I keep hearing noise from the San Diego Fleet 7. Our commodore is from there. Why not put the arm on them to host this next one? I might consider a trip that far (no Rockies), and so would Terry Annis. Frisco would be a hoot, too!

Also, isn't there an active fleet at Folsom Lake, CA??? Don't they race?

Best,

Gary B.
s/v Encore! SK/SR #685

Glad you liked our little "mementos". I thought they were great, too, but had not heard much.

Edited by - Gary B. on 07/05/2006 16:15:46

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2006 : 00:30:16

I might be persuaded to haul my boat up to Portland but not to Cleveland ($$$). Missed the last one in Portland because of a family reunion/cruise to Alaska, planned without my input, of course :(

Host in San Diego? Sheesh....would have to see if Mission Bay Yacht Club (neither Jim nor I belong) might take care of race committee work but that might be a long shot. We don't have flags, etc., to do a race but the ocean sure would be a great place to race!!
We're down to three official boats and two others, one new and one I haven't seen in 6-7 months. The sixth boat (Cavins) got pulled and hauled back to Arizona.

I might be persuaded to haul my boat up to Portland......

Got to be sure that the end of my school year is not the same day as the start of the nationals as was this years

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2006 : 06:43:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gnorgan
 
Host in San Diego? Sheesh....would have to see if Mission Bay Yacht Club (neither Jim nor I belong) might take care of race committee work but that might be a long shot.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You can go to us sailing and find a Race Officer. Any powerboat or two will do. Most PRO's have their own gear or access to the flags needed.

In most instances a PRO would only need the following gear and flags when using a rule 26 start -Flags - > India, Papa, and RC flag, an Orange flag,(or one Orange RC flag) Sierra, Charlie, Lima, first repeater, Maybe Yankee, AP, an Alpha, and a November. Gear: hand held compass, GPS, a white board or two and a two or three marks. I'm sure the association would consider buying a set of flags, or you can up the entries by 15 bucks and get a set. Most clubs would have a spare set of marks that could be used.

dw

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