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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

sailing downwind

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cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/10/2006 : 08:21:42

i was on a near dead-run recently ( the bearing i needed to be on to get back home) in relatively light winds and the main seemed to be blocking the jib- the jib kept luffing. according to my gps, i was still doing 3-4knots. any suggestions on how to catch more wind next time? my jib is a 150 roller, i have a boom vang, and my boat is an '83FK.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 09:06:11

A whisker pole helps a lot downwind. If you're DDW in light air you can swing the main over to the other side of the boat and rig a preventer.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 09:06:15

When we are in this situation, we typically go wing-on-wing, which is made easier by making a whisker-pole. We use a home made whisker pole, made from an extendable painters pole. Wing-on-wing, if you're unaware, is when the main is on one side, and the jib is on the other. Looks really nice.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 09:25:04

First, I would not run DDW if I could help it. Second I would consider furling the headsail and running on main alone just for the simplicity of it. I do run wing on wing a lot but I do it for fun and not to get anywhere, my secret to wing on wing is to take the sheet off the winch and simply have it run from the block to my hand and I play it the entire time. If I were in a race I would wing on wing with a whisker pole and have often, even when single handing.
Bottom line, if I were trying to return to port I would broad reach for speed and ease of sail handling and simply gybe often.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 09:58:54

And if you're having trouble keeping a large genoa inflated while running wing on wing, you might try slightly oversheeting the main. For me, this causes air to flow 'backwards' across the main, directing more of it into the sagging headsail.

Oversheeting the main dead down wind does increase the risk of an accidental jibe somewhat, so pay extra attention to avoid sailing the main by the lee.

-- Leon Sisson

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cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 10:01:50

i tried wing-on-wing but without a whisker-pole. the jib again did not seem to catch wind- i don't think i was DDW- a situation i do try to avoid. i did evetually furl-up the jib and went on main alone. Ben- how do you rig up your pole? i like the painter's pole idea.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 11:45:54

Sailing dead downwind is the slowest point of sail, but, depending on the conditions, it might be the fastest way to get to your destination.

When beating to windward, the objective is to make ground to windward as quickly and efficiently as possible. To do that, you point as high as possible, while maximizing your speed, and you tack on the headers.

When sailing downwind the objective is to make ground downwind as quickly and efficiently as possible. The general rule is that you bear off downwind in the puffs, and you head up (broad reach) in the lulls. A boat running dead downwind in a strong wind can make about the same speed as a boat broad reaching in a strong wind, but the boat running dead downwind is making ground downwind much faster than the boat that is broad reaching. On the other hand, a boat that is broad reaching in light air can make ground downwind much faster than a boat that is running dead downwind in light air, even though the broad reacher is traveling a longer distance.

Suppose you round a mark, and the next leg is downwind, and you're in the midst of a strong puff. As long as the puff lasts, you should probably sail wing and wing, dead downwind, gaining as much ground downwind as you can, as quickly possible. When the wind subsides, then you should drop the pole, and gybe either the mainsail or the genoa (depending on which will put the boat on a more favorable course toward the next mark) onto a broad reach and that will keep your speed up in the lull. If another puff comes along, you should gybe again, and set the pole, and run dead downwind again. (With practice, you can learn to sail wing and wing fairly well in stronger winds without setting the pole. When puffs are coming and going frequently, it'll be easier to gybe back and forth without setting the pole, especially if you're shorthanded.)

By bearing off downwind in the puffs, and heading up to a broad reach in the lulls, you'll sail the shortest overall distance at the fastest average speed.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 12:58:38

You should just go up with your spinnaker. Fun. Colorful. Fast. Best slightly high of dead down (what is called heating up).

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 13:57:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ben- how do you rig up your pole? i like the painter's pole idea.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

CKS, I'll take a picture of how I do the ends of my homemade whisker pole and post them for you. Basically I tied with Seine (spelling?) Twine a brass clips on each end. The way I tied it is, I think, referred to as "hitching", but I'm not sure. I learned it on the schooner cruise last year, and it is really secure. My two were undersized, and this last Wednesday, winds 20+ mph, they bent, so I'm replacing them with big stainless caribiners. I've not tested the caribiners yet, since I just tied them on Sunday, but the brass clips I used before they bent lasted countless trips. Wednesday's sail was by far the most wind I've had them out in.

As far as deploying the pole, I have a "metal circle" on the front of my mast, about four feet off the deck. I clip one end of the pole into it, run the pole behind the forward lower, and clip the other end to the grommet on the sail. Then I extend the pole as needed. I take care not to sheet the jib in too far or not far enough that the pole rubs any of the shrouds.

The idea, by the way, is Steve Milby's. Thanks Steve!

Edited by - Ben on 07/10/2006 13:58:27

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 14:48:39

Hi Ben, I'd like to see those pics as well. I have a professional painters pole, very thick and heavy, but don't quite know how to do the ends. My boat has the ring on the mast as well, but it did not come with a spin or pole. Cheers.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2006 : 17:43:43

Check around for a used wisker pole too. My neighboring boat has a wisker pole just right for my 150, my current pole is great for a 110. A guy on a different dock wants my pole. I'm getting the bigger one for $100, and selling mine to the other guy for $75 making my new pole $25 for a Forespar. WM has the bigger one at about $450 and mine at about $350. Check e-bay or look for a sailing flea market, these come up in the bigger boating areas from time to time.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2006 : 06:37:14

Here is my homemade whisker pole...

Pretty simple, and doing the wrap with the Seine Twine is pretty easy. I think it is really important to use Seine Twine though. It does not stretch and is really strong. Once in place it holds really well. This black Seine Twine is coated in black stuff that will rub off on your hands and clothes if you're not careful. The twine also gives terrible blisters, I suppose I should have worn gloves when I was wrapping the ends.

Of course, I guarantee nothing and merely include that this has worked for me so far.

Edited by - Ben on 07/11/2006 06:38:27

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2006 : 07:35:19

THanks Ben. I have a handfull of SS hose clamps that might work instead of the twine. Cheers.

Edited by - on

cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2006 : 09:22:45

Thanks Ben. it looks like you attached the carabiners to both ends- corrrect?

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2006 : 09:40:25

Yes, CKS...I attached caribiners to both ends.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2006 : 16:49:40

Ben, the line is correctly termed 'Seizing Twine'
Normally you would seize two lines together, however it is not uncommon to descibe the tying of two lines as lashing the lines.

The act of securing two parts to each other is referred to as 'lashing' Not to be confused with 'lashing' as a form of punishment (me hearty!)

It gets really confusing when one starts to discuss the act of seizing the opportunity to lash someone verbally and then getting tied up in knots!

Paul

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