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Spinnaker rigging question

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drhunt
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/11/2002 : 11:17:15

I just bought a used symmetrical spinnaker. Couldn't pass up the deal. A pole came with the boat but has been in my garage gathering dust. What's the best way to rig the boat for using the spinnaker. Can I get away with combining sheets & guys? I have blocks for halyard and topping lift. Will have to go up the mast to run the lines. There's a fairlead on the cabin top forward that I assume I could use for a downhaul. Any advice would be appreciated.
thanks,

Daryl Hunt, C25 FK/TR #3595, "Discovery"

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drhunt
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 10:06:30

I found most of the answers to my own questions in, of all places, the [url="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/partscat.html"]C25 Factory Parts Catalog[/url]. [url="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc22.gif"]Page 22[/url] and [url="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc23.gif"]page 23[/url] show the layout, lines and hardware needed!

Daryl Hunt, C25 FK/TR #3595, "Discovery"

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joshuaheard
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 12:24:23

I'm curious, though. I'm thinking about a symmetrical spinnaker in the future. Will you run the sheet through the track car? The picture you referenced was not clear on that. If so, do you need two, one for the spin sheet, one for the jib sheet?

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 14:16:30

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'm curious, though. I'm thinking about a symmetrical spinnaker in the future. Will you run the sheet through the track car? The picture you referenced was not clear on that. If so, do you need two, one for the spin sheet, one for the jib sheet?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Daryl,
I think you would have better control and less mess if you ran your downhaul from the mast back to the cockpit as opposed to all the way on the bow like Catalina's pictures show.

Joshua,
This is the standard rigging for most boats racing with a symmetrical spinnaker. I have included a narrative of how everything is used too, so that you can try to mentally paint the picture as to how it all fits together. I wish I could get you pictures, but don't have any...

A symmetrical spinnaker requires the following gear:
Hardware:
<ul>
Spinnaker Pole
Pole Topping Lift
Pole Down Haul (optional*)
Pole track car on mast
Turning blocks mounted on the rail as far aft as possible.
Two snap shackles (light weight)
Two cam cleat blocks, mounted on the rail at the widest beam (alternative method requires two blocks to be here, and utilizes a second set of guys)</ul>

Software:
<ul>Spinnaker
Spin Halyard
Two Spinnaker sheet/guys
Tweaker / Twing Lines
Alternative method, an extra set of sheets</ul>

how to

Just prior to hoist:

The Halyard is attached to the head and both sheets are attached to the clews. The sheets both run back through snatch blocks that are attached via tweaker lines to the cam block located on the rail at the area of widest beam. The pole side (guy) snatch block is always pulled all the way in and cleated, the sheet side tweaker line/snatch block combo is always let out. Sometimes the snatch block is detached. The lines both continue aft to the turning blocks, then forward to the winches (if needed, otherwise just held by the trimmer.)

At Hoist:

The pole should be pulled back so that it is 90 % to the wind and obviously attached to the mast and windward sheet., The spinnaker is hoisted off the bow (*see note below). The person with the spinnaker sheet should trim the sail quickly to get it up and out, then ease so that it fills.

The gybe:
…The Tweaker line is released on the guy side of the boat. (windward side) The pole is released and reattached on the other side of the boat. This can be done either end to end or dipped. During this time the sail is free flown. During the early trials with this, be sure not to steer beyond the center of the sail. Lastly, after the pole is made (attached) the tweaker line is brought in on what is now the windward side of the boat.

Take Down: In this method, the bowman releases the snap shackle on pole side (windward) of the boat after the jib has been hoisted. The Sheet trimmer needs to quickly gather the foot of the sail (over the lifeline). The bow person then releases the halyard and lets it down in accordance with how much is being taken in by the people in the cockpit. This happens behind the sail. If racing, it better happen quick or the helmsman’s shoe will need to be dislodged from your backside. The foredeck/bowman will then need to take the pole off the mast and get the boat ready to tack.

The alternative method of rigging is rather old-fashioned and was done prior to the invention of tweaker lines, it involves a second set of sheets tied to the clew and run through blocks on the jib tracks. The pole would be attached to this line as opposed to the sheet. The Leeward side of the boat would use the line running all the way aft while the guy would just be slacked so that there is no tension on it.
....
*note: The C-25 Is right in the middle of big boat/little boat spinnaker set and dousing styles and these can feasibly be done with either type of rigging. Smaller boats don't always use a downhaul and just rely on the guy. The Hoist can be done from the rail, the cabin or the bow. If you choose the cabin or rail, rationalize the rigging so that you don’t have fouled sheets if you wish to hoist from a different location other than what I am showing above. The cabin hoist for example, requires that the guy be long enough to go all the way around the forestay, outside the jib and attach to the spinnaker in the cabin. Just don't get it caught up in something else. The same for the Halyard. With these methods, snap shackles are not needed on the spinnaker and all lines can be tied to it and remain that way

I hope I haven't thoroughly confused you now

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1ce23b3127cce9b043565af3d0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 06/13/2002 14:18:19

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 14:25:42

Duane,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The sheets both run back through snatch blocks that are attached via tweaker lines<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Don't you mean the snap shackles? Wouldn't snatch blocks be a bit heavy in this application?

John Mason - Ali Paroosa
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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687 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 14:31:29

Here are some diagrams on the Harken website that show some of what Duane is describing:
http://www.harken.com/rigtips/spinnaker.php

John Mason - Ali Paroosa
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 17:11:50

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Duane,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The sheets both run back through snatch blocks that are attached via tweaker lines<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Don't you mean the snap shackles? Wouldn't snatch blocks be a bit heavy in this application?

John Mason - Ali Paroosa
1982 - FK/SR #3290
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

NO...a snap shackle would put too much wear on the line. these are snatch blocks...very light weight....I went to sail net to look for a pic, but couldn't find one....They are rectangular with one side coming to a point (so I guess more of a pentagon) Even a regular block would do, you just wouldn't be able to remove the leeward one in really light air.

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1ce23b3127cce9b043565af3d0000004010" border=0>

Edited by - on

drhunt
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2002 : 22:07:29

Duane Wolff wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Daryl,
I think you would have better control and less mess if you ran your downhaul from the mast back to the cockpit as opposed to all the way on the bow like Catalina's pictures show.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Duane,
Thanks, your reply is very helpful. I've been doing the foredeck work on a Scampi 30 for 3 years on Tuesday night races. The theory is the same but every boat sets up differently. So I appreciate hearing what works best on the C25. One question on your comment above: Are you suggesting I could run the foreguy back through the cabin-top mounted fairlead to a turning block at the mast, instead of forward to a standing block and then back? That would certainly be simpler.
regards,
Daryl

Daryl Hunt, C25 FK/TR #3595, "Discovery"

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2002 : 09:40:27

Daryl,

Yes. As a matter of fact, the 25 is small enough that you probably get enough downforce on the guy itself and don't need a forguy(downhaul for pole). We used a bungee cord for a year or two and that worked very well. (trick I learned from some really small boat sailors.)

I have a plate under the mast tabernacle that allows for the attachment of numerous blocks etc. The forward portion is where I attach the downhaul and it runs back, just like the halyard to the cockpit.

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b1ce23b3127cce9b043565af3d0000004010" border=0>

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