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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/01/2006 : 08:23:11

Saturday I got several projects done and then went for a short sail. Everything was great, really enjoyed trying out my new modifications (bimini, cam cleats, tiller stay), and then we headed back to my marina. I only used the outboard for the 15 min or so down the channel to my marina. Just as I arrived at my slip I noticed my outboard seemed slightly sluggish and then I saw a small amount of smoke. We secured the dock lines and I shut off the engine. I noticed how hot even just the engine cover was. The smoke was coming out of this vent with the red circle:

Does anyone know what this vent is? In the manual they don’t label it even though they label most other parts of the outboard. On Sunday we started it up again to try to trouble shoot it and we found the water coming out of the cooling system was just dribbling. Increasing throttle and putting it in either gear made no difference. I’ve been doing some research on here and from what I have read, it sounds like the impeller may need to be replaced. The water intake screen and outlet port are both clear.

I found this [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=8566&SearchTerms=replace,impeller"]thread[/url] that describes how to replace the impeller on an ’82 or ’83 long shaft Honda 10hp (model B100L).
I’m guessing my BF15A 15hp Honda is from the 90’s. Does anyone know if the steps are about the same? Does anyone have photos of disassembling the lower casing? I tried to find a service manual for this OB, but have only found one which covers many Honda outboards from 1976-1999:
[url="http://www.repairmanual.com/marine/4/9298"]Service Manual[/url]
Does anyone know of a more specific service manual or is this one probably fine?

One other thing that Dave noticed is that the exhaust does not appear to be bubbling underwater. I’ve never noticed this and the outboard seemed to be working fine since I got it until now, but I hope this isn’t another issue. The Honda manual does say it has an underwater exhaust.

Has anyone tied a dingy to the stern and replaced the impeller while in the water? Any tips or specific instructions for this outboard? Should I wait until I can get a service manual?

I hope this problem will be an easy fix just replacing the impeller. Hopefully no further damage was done. My boat is out of commission until I get this fixed.

At least it’s happening now in August during these hot, calmer days, and I’m not missing out on the best sailing weather.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Justin
Previous Owner of Sapphire Breeze - 1982 Catalina 25 SK/SR
My sail blog site: https://reveriesailing.com/

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 09:20:42

"Does anyone know what this vent is?"

I think it simply 'vents' the area between the outer engine casing and the crankcase. Hopefully you haven't lost a head gasket or suffered other damage due to overheating.

I would NOT try an impeller replacement on the transom. After XX years in saltwater (assuming boat has been on Chesapeake Bay most of it's life) you may be in for a bit of a battle with frozen or balky components. I'd recommend taking the engine to a reputable shop... (which are sometimes hard to find).

Back the boat up to the dock and find a couple husky people to help you lift it off. (Be sure to tie a safety line on it).

Might just be the impeller, but there might be salt encrustation involved too. 4 strokes are notorious for 'cooking' salt into the cooling passages, especially around the exhaust port area. Removing it involves 'rodding it out' with a flexible wire inserted into the cooling passages.

I flush my engine after each use... and run a water/vinegar mix through periodically.

Also note that if the impeller has disintegrated there may be bits and pieces of it lodged up in the cooling passages. No fun.

Side note: Honda is somewhat notorious for 'protecting' it's dealer network. I think this is why you don't see aftermarket/competitively priced Honda parts/Accessories/Manuals etc.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 09:57:49

Justin,
I can only speak from my experiences with my Honda 8hp but changing the impeller required removing the tail end below the prop and disconnecting the shift rod at the top of the engine. The cooling passages and thermostat can be accessed by removing the intake manifold. You do not want to attempt this on the water. If you do it yourself you should take it home where you can work in a controlled environment. You will not know the exact parts you need until you get it apart. If you have the proficiency to adjust the valves or chnage out a carburetor on a car you should be able to handle it. If not, take it to a service mechanic.

When you flush it does water flow smoothly from the pee hole and the water intakes? If so your impleller is probably disentegrated. If not you probably have an obstruction. Salt or rubber from the impeller.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
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Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:16:53

Justin,

In my experience, the best source of service manuals has always been from the original manufacturer (ordered through a franchised dealership). However these model-specific detailed manuals are usually much more expensive than the broader, shallower general repair guides from Clymers, Chilton, and others. Some dealers may be more eager than others to sell copies of those factory manuals over the counter. If you aren't successful getting them through your local dealership, try contacting the regional customer service representative for clarification of policy. The dealer and the manufacturer don't always have exactly the same economic incentives...

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 11:40:14

Thanks for the input so far. The first thing I'll do this weekend is try flushing the engine. That is something I haven't done before and may be the cause of this problem. Live and learn from mistakes

. I'll need to pick up one of those suction cup flushing devices. If it is just salt build up, is it possible to flush it out with the vinegar/water mixture? Or is it usually so encrusted that you have to use the wire? Can I maybe feed a flexible wire into the holes while it's on the boat to try to clean out the pipes? Or do you have to disassemble the engine to access most of of the piping?

I've never worked on a car's carburetor or valves, but I have done other mechanical work on my car such as a new intake system, exhaust, and suspension work. So, I do have a nack for this kind of thing.

About the service manual... I tried Honda's site, but they didn't have one listed for my BF15A engine. I saw how much they charge for others though, ranging from $30-100 for the manuals.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 12:11:16

I have a Honda 9.9
Commercial fishing fleets on the west coast predominently have honda OB's (kickers).
Generally a little more expensive to own than most other brands, but well worth it in terms of reliability and longevity.
My experience with OB's of any make is: if I can't figure out how to fix it at first sign of trouble, I take it to an authorized dealer.

Edited by - on

atgep
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Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 13:51:34

Here are a few things to try.

If the impeller is shot, adding pressure from the flusher, will increase the water flow. If it does. STOP and rebuild the water pump. If you find the impeller is missing parts, YOU MUST FIND THEM. They will lodge somewhere in the engine and that part they are stuck in will melt down. A sunstantial teardown could be in order if you are missing parts. The alternatine is a $2000 + replacement.

Tom.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 13:51:56

I have a 1995, 4stroke 8hp. I don't have access to the owners manual it is on the boat, but I might have read that my engine might shutdown by design if overheated, also have you thought about the thermostat not opening. Just a couple of thoughts.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 14:10:23

I forgot to mention that Dave did think about the thermostat being the problem. So, that's another thing to look into. My owners manual doesn't say much at all about over heating other than check to make sure the water intake screen is clear. Next time I head out I plan to flush it and see whether the water flows through or not. If it does, then I guess it's either the impeller or the thermostat. If not, then I probably need to clean out the pipes.

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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1016 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 18:19:14

Before buying the "rabbit ears" flushing kit, make sure that's what your engine is designed for. My 4-stroke 8hp Honda uses a really weird looking contraption that clips on to the lower cavitation plate, looks like this:

I had a new impeller put in by a mechanic and shortly after, no water was discharging from the outflow hose, although fortunately it did not overheat before I noticed the problem. The hose itself was clear but flushing normally didn't help, neither did "rodding it out." However, shoving the outflow hose into a garden hose and turning the garden hose on full blast managed to dislodge whatever was stuck insde the motor itself and all has been normal since. Got soaking wet doing it, but it worked.

Good luck. Hope you didn't damage anything too severely.

Steve

Edited by - Lightnup on 08/01/2006 18:27:13

bear
Admiral

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Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 18:40:01

Steve, Do you recall where you got the adapter from?

Edited by - on

Fantasy II
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 18:52:00

"Shoving a garden hose into the outlet" is kinda back-flushing the cooling system - and it works! I did that on an older Honda 9.9 and it dislodged whatever was blocking the cooling water. BUT! BUT! BUT! Doing that resulted in some of the "back-flush" water getting into the oil!!

I had to drain and refill the oil three times to get all of the water out of the oil! After that, the motor ran fine, with plenty of cooling water flow out the pee hole

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 08/01/2006 : 20:08:54

I got mine from a Honda dealer. Don't let that flushing fitting get anywhere near the water unless it is already connected to a hose it will dive in. (Don't ask how I know this).

You'll either need one of the special flushers or rig up support for a 5 gallon poly bucket under the lower end to flush. If you go the bucket route, put a half gal of (cheap) vinegar in with about 3 gal water and see if things improve after a bit of running. Replenish the mix in the bucket as needed.
Probably worth a try, but I'm guessing you'll need a new impeller.

There are also commercial 'salt flush' products available in marine stores and on the web. Have never used one though so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

Flush after every use if you want a 4 stroke to last. 2 Strokes have lower exhaust temperatures and don't seem to have the same salt problems.

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Lightnup
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Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 06:49:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bear
 Steve, Do you recall where you got the adapter from?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Like ClamBeach, I got mine through the local Honda OB dealer but I had first found a description and part number online. He had to order it, had never seen one and was zero help in figuring out how to attach it, but at least he knew how to place the order.

Bill - I didn't know back-flushing could cause water to get in the oil. Guess I'd better go check my oil...since I'm planning on going to the boat today anyway and stripping all the canvas off in preparation for the possible visit of Hurricane Chris.

Steve

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 06:59:34

When searching for manuals for the 15 hp... remember that it is the same motor as the 9.9 for those years... the 9.9 was a detuned 15.

Also, during those years, Honda's anti corrosion was not well thought of and head passages clogged if salt water was not flushed.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 12:00:49

I found the flush adapter that Honda makes and will try to order it. So far the dealers in my area will have to special order it, which means they won't get it until next week. Arrggh... I was hoping to work on it this weekend. If it is salt built up in the system, would using some of this [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/33529/10001/202/169/6"]Salt-Away Treatment[/url] help disolve it? Has anyone used something like this before? I just wonder if it's too late, possibly too much build up for something like this to disolve.

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Lightnup
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Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 15:30:24

Justin -

If you really, really gotta have it for the weekend, I can overnight mine to you tomorrow and you'd have it Friday. (Assuming the 8hp and 15 hp use the same contraption.) Let me know.

Steve

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 16:29:19

Steve, that's very thoughtful of you to offer. I don't have to have it this weekend, I'm just anxious to trouble shoot my engine and I can only go to my boat on the weekends because of the distance. Looking at Honda's site, this is the one I need:

Are you still using yours or is it from a previous outboard? If you're not using it anymore, sure I'll buy from you, but if you are using it on your current engine I'll just wait.

I'm also anxious to get her up and running again because I just completed all these projects that make sailing even more enjoyable and I can't wait to sail her again.

Thanks,

Edited by - on

Lightnup
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Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 16:53:41

Sorry, it looks like the flush kit for my BF8A is completely different than your BF15D. When I become ruler of the world, I'm going to require that all outboards use the same flush kit, just 'cause it friggin' makes sense.

Steve

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 18:52:17

I wonder if this tech tip from Douglas Young would help with your situation. It doesn't look too difficult to install.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/tt028.asp

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Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 19:38:21

Gee, who would have thought to look in the tech section for a technical solution? Thanks Ray...and Doug. Another project added to my list.

Steve

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Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 08/02/2006 : 20:30:39

Justin... I think the flush adapter in the pic is for the 2001 and later 8-9.9

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2006 : 08:08:34

Hmmm... So I can either make my own adapter that is placed in an easier to reach location or buy that part. I'm pretty sure that adapter I posted above is correct for my model. I have a BF15A, it says it's for BF15 and it looks like what they show in the drawing in my manual. Anyone know where I would buy those pieces to make my own? Maybe I'll try some hardware stores. Ray, thanks for pointing out Doug's tip.

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Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 08/03/2006 : 12:12:19

Justin,
I believe the tech secion flush tip will not work on the larger (9.9hp -15hp) Honda's. I don't believe they have the external cooling hoses. If they do that is your ideal solution.

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Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2006 : 12:29:40

Joe, that's one thing I was trying to determine. Here are two photos I took way back in March. I don't have a photo of the side pictured in the tech tip article.

In the first photo by the oil filler cap, you can see a tube that looks about the same as the one tapped into in the tech tips:

Anyone know if that is probably the cooling hose?

Thanks,

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 08/03/2006 : 17:09:27

Justin,
If it is it is on the opposite side from the 8HP model. If you can pull the hose off the conector you should be able to determine if it is a fuel, oil or water hose.

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