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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Do hand help wind speed meters really work

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/26/2006 : 23:24:15

Hi All, just wondering what the general consencious is on the little hand held wind speed meters. I was shocked at how much they cost. Cheers.

Dennis
No Boat
S.E. Michigan

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2006 : 23:34:32

Mine works very well, but the good ones are not cheap.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 07:46:29

I have always been of the opinion that wind speed is relative. Relative to the condition of your boat, the skill level of the captain and the danger of the location. The Beaufort scale is a great model that can be abbreviated for the typical sailor:

Dead calm
cats paws, (sucker wind, gets you out there and leaves you hanging)
drifter, ok in cold temps but hell in heat
All the sail you got (move 2.5 knots or better)
Hull speed (depends on your sail inventory)
Shorten sail
keep'r on her feet (non-essential guests are often below with wide eyes)
and finally "hell no"

As I said I do not relate these directly to windspeed as much as to the criteria above. You can sail in really high wind here on my lake because all lee shores are silty mud leading to beaches, disaster can lead to embarrassment but little else. This is 20 knots of wind and just the beginning of "shorten sail"

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 07:52:48

Frank, is that one reef or two? JD rarely heels that much (Admirals Memo is read to the capn and all crew prior to all departures!). On our last trip out, when wind was hitting 20 we hardly had 10d of heel (2nd main reef, most of jib out.)

paul.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 11:11:42

Frank, were you holding that much weather helm... or turning the boat when the photo was snapped? Might move that jib lead aft a couple feet! (tough to do when out single handing in 20 kts).

IMHO: Fun to look at photos of boats under sail and analyze the 'details'.

Wonder why Garelick doesn't offer their motor mounts anodized in white...??? Not many boats come with black hulls.

>"wind was hitting 20 we hardly had 10d of heel (2nd main reef, most of jib out.)"

In my experience, reefing the main is more effective in rerducing heel than changing the jib. I think it's because the vertical center of effort of the main is higher off the waterline than the the jib (on our boats anyway).

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 11:24:29

Dennis,

I have a Kestrel 1000 that I like. I don't know what models you are looking at, but mine was $70. It's pretty basic and that is what I wanted. Gives me current WS, average WS and gusts. Water proof and floats, those 2 features were more important to me than a lot of bells and whistles.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 11:40:44

Hi Rick, I just opened up the WM cataloge last night and was looking at what they had. I think it is on my wish list but I thought it might be nice to have. The rule of thumb I go by is "occasional whitecaps = one reef, all whitecaps = two reefs, foam off the tops = bar". Cheers.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 11:57:38

Dennis,

Get the wind meter. They are nice to have when you aren't sure how much sail to put up when you get to the dock. We all have our wind limitations after all. Note that Frank is an inland lake sailor. Sailing can be much more complicated on big water such as the Great lakes or on the ocean. You'll like it in particular when you are single handing in the Port Huron to Mac and you need to gauge the wind and you can't see those cats paws Frank was talking about.

When cruising I will also use mine to decide if there's enough wind to sail or use the motor. The difference between two knots and five knots of wind is often not discernable. Obviously I'd rather sail than motor, unless I need to charge batteries.

I also use it while cruising to do trip planning for the day. Though not entirely accurate, you can estimate how fast you'll sail in a given wind speed and thus caluculate if you'll make the next anchorage before dark. Of course, you can get the same info from the local NOAA station but, redundancy is good on a sail boat and it's fun to do things on your own. I also have a time-distance wiz wheel for making the calcualtions.

Your decision but.............I'd have one on board and close to hand.I also have a kestrel 1000.

Edited by - aeckhart on 08/27/2006 12:07:45

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 14:36:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 Frank, were you holding that much weather helm... or turning the boat when the photo was snapped? Might move that jib lead aft a couple feet! (tough to do when out single handing in 20 kts).

IMHO: Fun to look at photos of boats under sail and analyze the 'details'.

Wonder why Garelick doesn't offer their motor mounts anodized in white...??? Not many boats come with black hulls.

>"wind was hitting 20 we hardly had 10d of heel (2nd main reef, most of jib out.)"

In my experience, reefing the main is more effective in rerducing heel than changing the jib. I think it's because the vertical center of effort of the main is higher off the waterline than the the jib (on our boats anyway).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dennis by all means get a wind gage if you want one.

Other view, There was a regatta going on that day, I went out to watch, the marks boat took the photos. The boat may not have been dialed in very well but the tell tales looked fine. I have to assume I am at hull speed so the weather helm was not slowing me down. Its just good exercise.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 16:55:18

Hi All, thanks for all your input.

Al, knowing the wind at night is something I had not considered and is the best reason for getting one.

Frank, what motor mount do you have. I have the narrow silver four arm one and it does not come up nearly that high.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2006 : 17:07:57

The old Johnsons also go very horizontal

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 08/27/2006 17:10:33

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2006 : 07:55:44

I've got a little plastic wind gauge that costs about $10--it uses a little plastic floating thing to measure wind velocity. It's pretty useless. I've also got a battery-operated model with a little propeller. It seems to work well. We use it for sail selection--although we have not used a sail smaller than the 170 in racing all season. Summer evenings on the Potomac are inevitably quiet.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:14:57

I've got an expensive hand held model which I think is mostly useless. We use it whenever its very windy and we want to see just how windy it is or how accurate the weather forecaster was. The windmeter usually comes out after we've made our sailing decisions and has, as yet, not assisted in making a decision.
We have hank on foresails. On the lake, We try to fly the genoa whenever possible - what we do is stand on the foredeck (at our mooring ball) and ask ouselves if we can handle the genoa and if we need to reef.
If in doubt, we put on the 100% jib and or reef the mainsail. We also refer to the water - if there are whitecaps we go with less sail.
On the ocean, there is better weather forecasting available and weather radio available to give us on-going updates.
This may change, but at present, I'm an observational sailor. I depend more on how I feel that day, who I have for crew and what the objective is.
Our wind guage only has MS (meters per second) so we have make a conversion calculation - this further exacerbates my dislike of this thing. So, if I were to get a wind guage, I'd want it affixed with an easy to use guage in the cockpit and with several options as to measurement (KM's, MS, FPS, MPH and etc)

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2006 : 15:21:02

Our wind guage only has MS (meters per second) so we have make a conversion calculation - this further exacerbates my dislike of this thing. - Mike/Stampeder

That is about like having "furlongs per fortnight" on your car's speedometer ... 'absolutely useless ... 'can't blame you for not liking it!

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2006 : 15:41:15

I'd like to have one but I get along well without it. About the only choice us hank-on jib sailors have is what headsail to put on. I think we consistently over estimate wind speeds.

Under 10 knots, flags flapping, bring up the big headsail. 10 is when it first starts to feel like it is windy, 5 like the first breeze you can feel that seems "sailable".

10 to 15, flags ripping straight out, occasional whitecaps, seas 2 to 3. Choose the 135. Perfect sailing day.

15 to 20 halyards flapping and ringing all over the dock, sea consistent with many whitecaps, seas 2 to 4 - choose the 110. Outhaul tight, may need flattening reef.

20 to 25 you begin to wonder if its too windy to go out. 110 and reefed main, perhaps double reefed main. Forget flying the spinnaker on my boat.

25 - 30 Boat sails hull speed under single reefed main. Storm jib helps with pointing. Seas 5 to 6 and breaking. I most likely would not leave the harbor in this much wind (although I may still go out and sail around the bay).

30+ a sea of whitecaps, large breaking waves, very uncomfortable/frightening in a C25, especially at night, in a thunderstorm, 30 miles from land. You'll be glad to have a standard rig, storm jib, and double reefed main and to be headed for home/shelter.

I know some of you tolerate higher windspeeds. These are Pacific ocean conditions.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2006 : 16:35:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That is about like having "furlongs per fortnight" on your car's speedometer <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Funny! Thanx for the laugh Buzz.

The wind guage was a gift from well meaning in-laws.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 08:33:16

Notto be argumentative or smug but, I'll wager that those of you who day sail on small lakes don't have a barometer on board either. Like the wind meter, another devise to keep the weather picture clear.

Edited by - aeckhart on 08/30/2006 08:34:57

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 09:08:02

Oh Contrair, mine's bigger than yours!

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reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 11:11:21

I have neither barometer nor windspeed meter, though I'd like to have both by next season (by next season: now there's a topic for the general forum) but did recently drop 8 bucks on a fascinating little book called Instant Weather Forecasting, by Alan Watts. It's essentially a collection of cloud pictures; you find the picture closest to the sky you're under at the moment, match a few other key factors, and it suggests the weather you should be prepared for in the next 12 hours. Have just played at this for a week or so, but it seems (thus far) as accurate as the VHF forecasts during the same period.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 12:20:35

We have barometer on board and consider it essential equipment.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 13:43:41

The brass covered plastic barometer/clock/temp was the first thing I tossed off the boat when I bought it. In the middle of January, in Michigan, the temp read 108 degrees the barometer was pegged all the way to the port and the clock, no matter how much I wound it, read 1:49....all winter. I like the look of the three instuments but would rather they worked. Cheers.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2006 : 08:51:51

Dennis,

Get yourself a decent barometer. Again, it will help you to monitor the weather at night when you can't see around you. When that needle starts to drop you can be sure the weather will change for the worse. As a minimum, you'll be warned to put on your rain gear. If it really drops fast it's telling you to reduce sail and get ready for a blow. Even under clear skys I check mine every hour and note the readings in my cruising notes for the day.

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2006 : 09:06:02

Hi Al, yep it is on the list. I did this for three and a half years while in the Navy. I asked my cheif to put me on perminent midwatch and that is all we did......look out and note conditions. That is still my favorite time in a day. Cheers.

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2006 : 13:14:43

Hi Dennis, Hadn't used my little $14 plastic wind gauge is several years, but in response to your query I hauled it out of the cockpit side opening and gave it a try. I assumed the win to be about 10 kts. The gauge agreed

Val on Calista # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

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